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D-360 Low oil pressure, at wits end


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The service manual I have shows how to test the oil pickup tube while installed on the engine. If you have not done that it might be worth doing to see if there are any leaks up to the oil pump.

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keep thinking about the cooler nozzles, anyone check to make sure the holes in them are not too big? This has a massive internal leak, without a doubt. That is one big thing that was changed, piston jets added. 

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38 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

The 1 1/4 pump came out in 1988. There was service bulletin for DT-466 having oil pressure issues. They came out with a different front cover, pickup tube, regulator valve and pump. I have the new style regulator installed currently. That would explain why GSS-1427-3, the 3rd and final revision, does not show anything about the 1 1/4 pump. 

Since this was the service bulletin, then there was a problem IH said needed to be fixed. Are there more service bulletins for the D-360 or bigger engines about lubrication?

You need flow to get pressure. Basis Physics. There needs to be to much flow before the pressure regulator bleeds it off so the pressure don't go to high.

The piston coolers were added and the turbo. But many engines run them with no issues. But there is a service bulletin on a low oil pressure problem. WHY! Does anyone know?

If one goes back to the basics, this 360 has a case of a lack of oil flow. Assuming the pump is doing it's thing, then the oil has to be bleeding off somewhere and back to the pan. I can remember in the old IH service manuals, seeing the colorized oil flow chart for these engines. Would it help to study that diagram for a clue?

I am leaning towards a missing plug as it has to be a rather large leak to kill that much oil flow. Those pumps put out buckets of oil, in a hurry. But where? Was this block at a machine shop? Was it cleaned with the rifle brushes, etc.. Did the machine shop forget a plug. Was it sabotaged at school. 

Thinking outside the box again!

 

 

 

Yes, I understand that you need adequate flow to create pressure.

I had this engine apart 2 months ago. Both plugs were in place in the back of the block and 1 in the front. There is 1 open on the front of the block where the pump sends oil to the lower gallery for the cooler, regulator and filters.

There were little to no updates specifically on the 360 for anything, they just ran. New style parts such as oil pumps, regulators, rockers were all for the 400 series, but all of the parts that have nothing to do with lenght of the engine will fit 300 and 400 series.

There are no plugs inside the block or the head or the cover. There is an orifice on the deck of the block I'm assuming for rockers. But we never touched it.

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4 minutes ago, Injpumped said:

keep thinking about the cooler nozzles, anyone check to make sure the holes in them are not too big? This has a massive internal leak, without a doubt. That is one big thing that was changed, piston jets added. 

There's only 1 size. They fit an 806-5488

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5 minutes ago, Injpumped said:

keep thinking about the cooler nozzles, anyone check to make sure the holes in them are not too big? This has a massive internal leak, without a doubt. That is one big thing that was changed, piston jets added. 

.042 if my information is correct

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The three oil galley frost plugs, do they have to be driven in until they bottom out in the block, or just flush?  Is it possible that they are there, but are not driven in to the proper depth, and are allowing oil to pass by?

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Oil flows from the pump -- thru the front cover to the block -- to the front port on the oil cooler -- thru the oil cooler , back into the block -- past the regulator valve , then to the filters -- from the filters back into the block to the main oil galley -- then to the main bearings -- cam and rocker are oiled from the main bearing passages

Nothing in the filter base will cause low flow , as the bypass spills into the main oil galley -- unless the bypass will not open and the filters can not flow the oil
Then the regulator will limit the pressure to 75 psi in the up stream passage from the oil cooler

The oil pressure port is after the filters -- in the main oil galley

You need to test the pressure before the filters and compare to what the tractor gauge reads

There is a port on the bottom of the oil cooler that would give this reading -- the pressure from the pump , before the filters and regulator

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I tapped a gauge into the back of the block just above the camshaft. The pressure difference between there and the LH injection pump oil feed/oil pressure gauge was like 8psi. The 300's do not have a plug to the rear of the oil filters like a 400 series because the block is too short. In theory even if the filter gasket was bad or the filter bypass was stuck open it shouldn't affect pressure. I's read the oil pressure diagram. There's low pressure everywhere so far

I think I can make a hose to check pressure in the oil cooler. I know what plug your talking about, the drain hose. @HydroTek

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6 minutes ago, HydroTek said:

1/4" pipe plug , if I remember right

I have a "spare" cooler at the Farm , maybe get a chance to go look

Have to look on my truck to see where the oil pressure gauge connects

Yes. 1/4" pipe. i just looked at a tractor in our shop 

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Filters hang downward on the truck engine

The oil pressure sender is tapped into the filter base at the rear filter

Turbo is tapped in at the the front filter

The 1/8" pipe plug at the rear of the block would be one of the passages leading to the cam bearings
I am not sure that would give an accurate oil pressure reading
How about using the turbo port on the filter base instead ?

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Just now, HydroTek said:

Filters hang downward on the truck engine

The oil pressure sender is tapped into the filter base at the rear filter

Turbo is tapped in at the the front filter

The 1/8" pipe plug at the rear of the block would be one of the passages leading to the cam bearings
I am not sure that would give an accurate oil pressure reading
How about using the turbo port on the filter base instead ?

It would be leading to the rockers. The cam is just below the top of the adaptor plate. 

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2 hours ago, Nebraska1206 said:

The three oil galley frost plugs, do they have to be driven in until they bottom out in the block, or just flush?  Is it possible that they are there, but are not driven in to the proper depth, and are allowing oil to pass by?

They're in past the face of the block 1/8". There's a small lip for them to catch. Plus the rear plugs would have the adaptor plate gasket to help them seal. 

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3 minutes ago, bwop2017 said:

It would be leading to the rockers. The cam is just below the top of the adaptor plate. 

So , a pressure reading taken there would not be indicative of the main galley pressure 

I am thinking you may have been chasing your tail here
well, at least we got exercise in thinking about oil pressure problems and their sources 

Test at the oil cooler plug -- betting you get a better reading
then move your pressure gauge to the filter base port

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I use a grease gun hose to test pressures at work -- with different fittings depending on what I am testing , with the Parker couplers so I can easily change out gauges

Also have a long hose from a corn head for running a gauge into a cab , so I can drive the tractors

Used one of the electronic "gauges" but so far the cost has held me back from getting a set of those

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2 hours ago, HydroTek said:

So , a pressure reading taken there would not be indicative of the main galley pressure 

I am thinking you may have been chasing your tail here
well, at least we got exercise in thinking about oil pressure problems and their sources 

Test at the oil cooler plug -- betting you get a better reading
then move your pressure gauge to the filter base port

Yes I just wanted to check pressure above the cam. if there was a significant drop that would point towards cam bearing. this way we know we have low pressure at the injection pump and above the cam. If oil cooler pressure is low then I'm afraid I don't have enough pump, correct?

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Or the pump is sucking some air. Have you done the test listed in the manual for checking suction tube etc?

I would think that pump you have has the capacity as it was used on lots of turbo applications.

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3 hours ago, IHC_1470 said:

Or the pump is sucking some air. Have you done the test listed in the manual for checking suction tube etc?

I would think that pump you have has the capacity as it was used on lots of turbo applications.

It's on the list. I got ahold of a different used tube.

Well the question is can the 1" pump run 12 jets and a turbo? My dad's 1066 has the 1" pump and holds perfect oil pressure. But idk how many jets it has. I though they only had 6 but I could very well be wrong.

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Oil pressure in the injection pump is used for lubrication as normal -- and to operate the timing advance

usually oil problems in that pump is due to the front shaft bushing wear and too much end slack in the shaft

a "noisy" pump -- one that sounds like someone taking a hammer to it -- is because of low oil pressure

Replacing the front shaft bushing and adjusting the shaft end play usually will fix that problem

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35 minutes ago, HydroTek said:

Oil pressure in the injection pump is used for lubrication as normal -- and to operate the timing advance

usually oil problems in that pump is due to the front shaft bushing wear and too much end slack in the shaft

a "noisy" pump -- one that sounds like someone taking a hammer to it -- is because of low oil pressure

Replacing the front shaft bushing and adjusting the shaft end play usually will fix that problem

It's not the injection pump. I warmed the engine to operating temp. Used my preluber to supply oil to it 40 psi. Then plugged the tube that supplies the injection pump. Essentially taking the inj pump out of the lube circuit. No change. Danny Andersons idea.

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3 hours ago, bwop2017 said:

It's on the list. I got ahold of a different used tube.

Well the question is can the 1" pump run 12 jets and a turbo? My dad's 1066 has the 1" pump and holds perfect oil pressure. But idk how many jets it has. I though they only had 6 but I could very well be wrong.

GSS1472B on page 1-176 says inspect the 12 piston oil jet tubs used in turbocharged engines. At time of publication they were only using the 1 inch pump. Now if that information is correct or not for all the turbo blocks or just a 466 your guess is good as mine. What ever the case at time of publication the 466 was running a 1 inch pump and must of had 12 jets.

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7 hours ago, IHC_1470 said:

GSS1472B on page 1-176 says inspect the 12 piston oil jet tubs used in turbocharged engines. At time of publication they were only using the 1 inch pump. Now if that information is correct or not for all the turbo blocks or just a 466 your guess is good as mine. What ever the case at time of publication the 466 was running a 1 inch pump and must of had 12 jets.

Running it is one thing. running it correctly is another.

The thing to find out is how many jets came from factory. I'm sure the 1" can handle 6 jets, but maybe not 12.

I'm not old enough to have opened one of them up long enough ago to tell. 

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One reference point. 

My 4366 has a DT466. The factory mechanical gauge is plumbed to the port just behind the oil filters. It peggs the gauge at cold startup idling. It drops off a little after warming up (still over 40psi) at idle.

The engine has been updated at some point before I bought it because it has the blowby tube on the valve cover.

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6 minutes ago, acem said:

One reference point. 

My 4366 has a DT466. The factory mechanical gauge is plumbed to the port just behind the oil filters. It peggs the gauge at cold startup idling. It drops off a little after warming up (still over 40psi) at idle.

The engine has been updated at some point before I bought it because it has the blowby tube on the valve cover.

Yes. I noticed that as well on my dad's 1066. The 360 and 312s have too short of a block. That plug isn't even there.

I still need to plumb a Guage into the oil cooler. I left the plug for the back of the block with my Allen bit set. Which is at work.

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