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D-360 Low oil pressure, at wits end


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The only thing I can think of is to run it for awhile.

Shut it off and immediately drain about a gallon of oil out of it.

If it is foamy and is full of bubbles, then you have a suction leak.

Beyond that, I am stumped?

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I don't know if this is possible to do, but is something I thought of.

The 400 series engines had updated rocker stands to improve oiling to the lifters & camshaft.  The 300 series engines didn't have that, but did you by chance add the updated rocker stands anyway, thinking it would help this engine like it would a 400 series?  And in doing so, it created a severe oil pressure drop?

Again, I don't know if that's even possible to do to a 312/360 engine.  Just a thought though.

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Remove the oil cooler -- make some plates for the oil ports and use your oil tank to supply -- the rear port will pressurize the system -- the front port will pressurize the oil pump supply

Since you pressurized thru the oil pressure fitting -- which is 1/8 pipe -- the flow from your oil tank would have been pretty small because of the fitting restrictions

Consider upsizing the oil feed hose or using air to start with , then follow with oil

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10 hours ago, Nebraska1206 said:

I don't know if this is possible to do, but is something I thought of.

The 400 series engines had updated rocker stands to improve oiling to the lifters & camshaft.  The 300 series engines didn't have that, but did you by chance add the updated rocker stands anyway, thinking it would help this engine like it would a 400 series?  And in doing so, it created a severe oil pressure drop?

Again, I don't know if that's even possible to do to a 312/360 engine.  Just a thought though.

I never messed with the stands either time. All of the stands have a small "v" notch in the bottom of them. There was 1 new style rocker lever in the valve train. But I updated all of the levers to all new the 2nd goaround, but didnt change the stands. Some of the rocker bushings didn't look great. I believe I read through the 400 series updated rocker SB. The 300s had been the same since 1971 other than the levers

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15 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

The only thing I can think of is to run it for awhile.

Shut it off and immediately drain about a gallon of oil out of it.

If it is foamy and is full of bubbles, then you have a suction leak.

Beyond that, I am stumped?

Should the dipstick show that? I would think if it's aerated oil it'll be on the stick

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9 hours ago, HydroTek said:

Remove the oil cooler -- make some plates for the oil ports and use your oil tank to supply -- the rear port will pressurize the system -- the front port will pressurize the oil pump supply

Since you pressurized thru the oil pressure fitting -- which is 1/8 pipe -- the flow from your oil tank would have been pretty small because of the fitting restrictions

Consider upsizing the oil feed hose or using air to start with , then follow with oil

I figured the hose size was gonna be a factor but it should still show a difference between an ooze or a spray or even push air through a big leak.

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So you bought this FUBAR'd at the time as a college project.

Hope you didn't flunk when it didn't run right!

Did the seller give any explanation as to what happened to the engine?

Is he still available for a call?

Did the past owner screw with this?

If so, what did he do?

Would be nice to have some history on this?

I see on Messick's that the D360 calls for a specific flywheel housing gasket at the back of the block and a specific head gasket. I see these two gaskets get specific but both front cover gaskets fit most everything. The 1" oil pump fits many different engines too. 

I had a 706G that had a wrong gasket in the oil filter base and that killed the oil pressure and destroyed the cam and oil pump. It was shutting off unregulated oil. 

Have you plugged the turbo oil pressure feed line and tried it? Just to eliminate that.  Hold the turbo wheel still when you start it.

Thinking outside the box!

 

 

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On 3/10/2024 at 10:51 PM, IHC_1470 said:

Not sure it would make any difference in checking for leaks but heat the oil up in a deep fat fryer before pushing through the engine and it might show you more leakage.

Another thought have you tried pressurizing the oil system while the engine is running to see if the additional oil will bring the pressure up? Maybe install a one way check valve so oil can only go into the engine and not be pumped back into your tank.

Well, Danny Anderson mentioned getting the engine hot. Cap off the injection pump oil feed. Hook the pre luber up to the injection pump for an external oil supply and run it to ensure the injection pump isn't a problem. And tap into the block behind the camshaft to check pressure there. Just clearing some time to do it.

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2 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

So you bought this FUBAR'd at the time as a college project.

Hope you didn't flunk when it didn't run right!

Did the seller give any explanation as to what happened to the engine?

Is he still available for a call?

Did the past owner screw with this?

If so, what did he do?

Would be nice to have some history on this?

I see on Messick's that the D360 calls for a specific flywheel housing gasket at the back of the block and a specific head gasket. I see these two gaskets get specific but both front cover gaskets fit most everything. The 1" oil pump fits many different engines too. 

I had a 706G that had a wrong gasket in the oil filter base and that killed the oil pressure and destroyed the cam and oil pump. It was shutting off unregulated oil. 

Have you plugged the turbo oil pressure feed line and tried it? Just to eliminate that.  Hold the turbo wheel still when you start it.

Thinking outside the box!

 

 

Still has never pressurized the front port where the oil cooler sits
this would prove the front gasket and oil pump

We are to the point of cut bait or fish
either do some serious diag
or tear into the engine an look for the problem
Else your gonna take out another set of bearings

That 1" Oil pump is rated at 18 GPM
so that little supply tank will not do the job of pressurizing the system
only good for priming before a first start

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6 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

So you bought this FUBAR'd at the time as a college project.

Hope you didn't flunk when it didn't run right!

Did the seller give any explanation as to what happened to the engine?

Is he still available for a call?

Did the past owner screw with this?

If so, what did he do?

Would be nice to have some history on this?

I see on Messick's that the D360 calls for a specific flywheel housing gasket at the back of the block and a specific head gasket. I see these two gaskets get specific but both front cover gaskets fit most everything. The 1" oil pump fits many different engines too. 

I had a 706G that had a wrong gasket in the oil filter base and that killed the oil pressure and destroyed the cam and oil pump. It was shutting off unregulated oil. 

Have you plugged the turbo oil pressure feed line and tried it? Just to eliminate that.  Hold the turbo wheel still when you start it.

Thinking outside the box!

 

 

We bought the tractor not running. He hadn't had it running for like 7 years. We threw some oil in it at home and said screw it and tried it. It wouldn't turn over, just gave up because it was gonna come apart anyway. Got it to college, low and behold, one of the rod caps was loose and both bearing halves got packed between the rod and crank and the piston was pushing against the head. I decided at the point the history didn't matter, it needed completely redone in every which way.

We didn't fail we had 1 day to spare even after the injection pump crapped out trying the first start. 

I have plugged the turbo off, no change.

The "different" front covers are only different of the cover has "ears" for a tractor frame or not.

I've tried both head gaskets. There's a truck style and the original ag style.

Yes, the 1", fits every 300/400 series. its the amount of jets I cant figure out if the 1" is enough to run 12 jets and a turbo. 

Yes, I have another filter base gasket I can try that. 

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4 hours ago, HydroTek said:

Still has never pressurized the front port where the oil cooler sits
this would prove the front gasket and oil pump

We are to the point of cut bait or fish
either do some serious diag
or tear into the engine an look for the problem
Else your gonna take out another set of bearings

That 1" Oil pump is rated at 18 GPM
so that little supply tank will not do the job of pressurizing the system
only good for priming before a first start

I just had the engine apart. I haven't done anything with the oil cooler block off plates because there are a couple of other small things I can rule out. I have other responsibilities that need tended too.

A 1066 and 5488 hold the same amount of oil. The 5488 would get the 1 1/4" pump. they never changed the oil capacity

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13 hours ago, gonzo1066 said:

I installed the higher capacity oil pump on the turboed 312 I built.  Never had an oiling issue. 

i'm thinking i'm gonna end up with the big pump. i don't think the 1" is enough for 12 jets. maybe the 466's had 12 jets and that's why they came out with the big pump because the 1" wasn't cutting it.

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Do you have GSS1427 service manual by chance? It has a pretty detail section on the lubrication system. At the time of publication it said there had been 3 widths of rotors used in the oil pump. States the original NA pump was 5/8 inch and 3/4 inch for turbo and the latest turbo was 1 inch. Then I find in another section of the manual mention of the earlier turbo pump was 7/8 inch. So not sure which is the correct number on early turbo engines. You mention 1 1/4 inch pump, is that an aftermarket pump, or did that come out after this manual was printed? As far as your question based on what the service manual is stating I would think a 1 inch pump is up to the task. 

You probably know this but the specs for oil pressure with hot oil is 10 psi at 650 rpm to 42 to 65 at rated rpm. 

Did you plasti-gauge the clearance on oil pump gears?

When you were pressure lubing the engine did you rotate it while looking for leaks? Also where did you tap into the lube system when you did that? The reason I ask is there is a note in the manual which states: If oil enters the engine at other than the cooler, oil will be blocked by the oil filter and will not flow to the lube oil pump. Which made me wonder if you tapped into the main galley if you could have missed a leak at the oil pump. 

Just sitting here and thinking about your issue.

 

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On 3/12/2024 at 1:56 PM, bwop2017 said:

We bought the tractor not running. He hadn't had it running for like 7 years. We threw some oil in it at home and said screw it and tried it. It wouldn't turn over, just gave up because it was gonna come apart anyway. Got it to college, low and behold, one of the rod caps was loose and both bearing halves got packed between the rod and crank and the piston was pushing against the head. I decided at the point the history didn't matter, it needed completely redone in every which way.

We didn't fail we had 1 day to spare even after the injection pump crapped out trying the first start. 

I have plugged the turbo off, no change.

The "different" front covers are only different of the cover has "ears" for a tractor frame or not.

I've tried both head gaskets. There's a truck style and the original ag style.

Yes, the 1", fits every 300/400 series. its the amount of jets I cant figure out if the 1" is enough to run 12 jets and a turbo. 

Yes, I have another filter base gasket I can try that. 

This tractor was built to run, and run it will.

These problems bring out the problem solvers in us.

Keep plugging away and all of a sudden, the light bulb will go off and it will be fixed.

It will be a story to tell the grandson.

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29 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

Somebody correct me if I am wrong but I thought that from the factory the D360 in the 766 had zero piston cooler jets and now this particular engine has 12?  

Plus a turbo

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A 1066 oil pump should be fine they had 12 jets also with a turbo . You didn’t use the oil filter gaskets for the truck oil filter housing did you? I’m pretty sure they are different 

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3 hours ago, Binder686 said:

A 1066 oil pump should be fine they had 12 jets also with a turbo . You didn’t use the oil filter gaskets for the truck oil filter housing did you? I’m pretty sure they are different 

I figure OP has a galley plug leaking (missing ) or the front cover gasket is blown

Asked to have the front oil cooler port pressurized to verify that the path to the oil pump will hold pressure

but nada

Maybe OP will post here when he finally tears into the engine and discovers the problem

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On 3/13/2024 at 11:59 PM, IHC_1470 said:

Do you have GSS1427 service manual by chance? It has a pretty detail section on the lubrication system. At the time of publication it said there had been 3 widths of rotors used in the oil pump. States the original NA pump was 5/8 inch and 3/4 inch for turbo and the latest turbo was 1 inch. Then I find in another section of the manual mention of the earlier turbo pump was 7/8 inch. So not sure which is the correct number on early turbo engines. You mention 1 1/4 inch pump, is that an aftermarket pump, or did that come out after this manual was printed? As far as your question based on what the service manual is stating I would think a 1 inch pump is up to the task. 

You probably know this but the specs for oil pressure with hot oil is 10 psi at 650 rpm to 42 to 65 at rated rpm. 

Did you plasti-gauge the clearance on oil pump gears?

When you were pressure lubing the engine did you rotate it while looking for leaks? Also where did you tap into the lube system when you did that? The reason I ask is there is a note in the manual which states: If oil enters the engine at other than the cooler, oil will be blocked by the oil filter and will not flow to the lube oil pump. Which made me wonder if you tapped into the main galley if you could have missed a leak at the oil pump. 

Just sitting here and thinking about your issue.

 

The 1 1/4 pump came out in 1988. There was s ervice bulletin for DT-466 having oil pressure issues. They came out with a different front cover, pickup tube, regulator valve and pump. I have the new style regulator installed currently. That would explain why GSS-1427-3, the 3rd and final revision, does not show anything about the 1 1/4 pump. 

I did check the spec. But it barely makes 40 at high idle when hot.

I tapped into the LH side of the block by the injection pump feed. I did turn the engine while pre-lubing. The oil filters were full. I remember plasti-gauging the oil pump a year ago just to rule out a clearance. This is the 2nd 1" oil pump that i've put on this engine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the oil pump. There isn't a scratch on it.

The engine wont event peg the gauge with cold oil. Its not getting enough oil or there is a massive leak.

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22 hours ago, Gearclash said:

Somebody correct me if I am wrong but I thought that from the factory the D360 in the 766 had zero piston cooler jets and now this particular engine has 12?  

This is a "75 model tractor. Its a late block. I believe all later blocks regardless of turbo or NA came drilled. It was a matter of whether it had jets for a turbo, or steel shot plugs for NA from the factory.

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12 hours ago, Binder686 said:

A 1066 oil pump should be fine they had 12 jets also with a turbo . You didn’t use the oil filter gaskets for the truck oil filter housing did you? I’m pretty sure they are different 

We used an overhaul kit for an AG D-360 there was only one filter base gasket in it. I've looked into the filter base gasket to try and find something different but they're the same for a 312-466. They look like swiss cheese.

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I did pull the regulator out of my dads 1066 that has good oil pressure and installed it into mine. He has the old style regulator yet, (left), with round holes. It primed faster, but made no change. 

Regulator.jpeg

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The 1 1/4 pump came out in 1988. There was service bulletin for DT-466 having oil pressure issues. They came out with a different front cover, pickup tube, regulator valve and pump. I have the new style regulator installed currently. That would explain why GSS-1427-3, the 3rd and final revision, does not show anything about the 1 1/4 pump. 

Since this was the service bulletin, then there was a problem IH said needed to be fixed. Are there more service bulletins for the D-360 or bigger engines about lubrication?

You need flow to get pressure. Basis Physics. There needs to be to much flow before the pressure regulator bleeds it off so the pressure don't go to high.

The piston coolers were added and the turbo. But many engines run them with no issues. But there is a service bulletin on a low oil pressure problem. WHY! Does anyone know?

If one goes back to the basics, this 360 has a case of a lack of oil flow. Assuming the pump is doing it's thing, then the oil has to be bleeding off somewhere and back to the pan. I can remember in the old IH service manuals, seeing the colorized oil flow chart for these engines. Would it help to study that diagram for a clue?

I am leaning towards a missing plug as it has to be a rather large leak to kill that much oil flow. Those pumps put out buckets of oil, in a hurry. But where? Was this block at a machine shop? Was it cleaned with the rifle brushes, etc.. Did the machine shop forget a plug. Was it sabotaged at school. 

Thinking outside the box again!

 

 

 

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