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W6 lazy engine


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I cant seem to get the w6 to fast idle to factory specs. I struggle to get 1400rpm and it has no lugging power. The governor is sloppy but seem to provide more than enought travel to fully open the throttle shaft.  Nothing seems to bind up in the governor. I do question the spring....seems too lose at low idle.

I get the feeling my carb is not opening up all the way. Should the shaft be fully upright at max trottle? See picture. Would explain the lack of lugging power.

I know i have a fuel delivery issue but it does not seem to be the problem here. Its being adressed and its symptom is clear,i run out of fuel in the carb after about 200ft down the pulling track at wide open.

I assume my timing is good as the tractor starts and sounds good. I had to guess the timing as i see two marks with the timing light.

I have gone through the carb a few times, i did find the butterfly was not centered and was hanging up causeing my surge issues that are now finally gone.

a snif of ether didnt show any vacuum leaks or cracked intake.

One last thing that might not help was the venturi looked like a piece of lava rock. It was not smooth at all.

So what am i doing wrong?  Timing or carb issues? Both or none of the above...  the farmall ms and 400s  i pull against all rev way higher and never bog, they spin out... why is my 6 so lazy lol

 

IMG_9346.jpg

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I would suggest this, measure every thing( do not assume ) , flow fuel ( time fuel flow amount in container .) ,timing light-the timing . I find the fastest way to uncover engine faults is using a vacuum guage . Remove the vacuum port from the intake ,install vacuum guage. your vacuum should be 18 to 22 inches of hg and a steady needle . If not then the readings will tell you what isn’t working. 
Get an I T manual orc shop manual and go thru one system at a time. 
My tractors are 75 years old and they have issues with everything, from the grill, hood to drawbar. I’ve never found a Farmall crystal ball that works, guessing cost me big bucks .

Post what your findings are so we can comment .good luck with your project . 




 

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If there is tension on governor spring in first picture. That is most of the problem right there. With both governor and carb at wide open. Clevis and throttle lever should line up so pin slips right in. The two timing marks with the light are either distributor wobble or point bounce.

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First picture,throttle at idle. Tension on spring = clevis up passed the cover. No tension on spring when the pin is in place and throttle at low idle.  Two physical notches/marks on the pulley. No play in the distributor, no more points.....will take a vacuum reading once i get the fuel line and tank back in place

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4 hours ago, Power of Red said:

I cant seem to get the w6 to fast idle to factory specs. I struggle to get 1400rpm and it has no lugging power. The governor is sloppy but seem to provide more than enought travel to fully open the throttle shaft.  Nothing seems to bind up in the governor. I do question the spring....seems too lose at low idle.

I get the feeling my carb is not opening up all the way. Should the shaft be fully upright at max trottle? See picture. Would explain the lack of lugging power.

I know i have a fuel delivery issue but it does not seem to be the problem here. Its being adressed and its symptom is clear,i run out of fuel in the carb after about 200ft down the pulling track at wide open.

I assume my timing is good as the tractor starts and sounds good. I had to guess the timing as i see two marks with the timing light.

I have gone through the carb a few times, i did find the butterfly was not centered and was hanging up causeing my surge issues that are now finally gone.

a snif of ether didnt show any vacuum leaks or cracked intake.

One last thing that might not help was the venturi looked like a piece of lava rock. It was not smooth at all.

So what am i doing wrong?  Timing or carb issues? Both or none of the above...  the farmall ms and 400s  i pull against all rev way higher and never bog, they spin out... why is my 6 so lazy lol

 

IMG_9346.jpg

why is this pin out? did u remove it??

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It seems to me that the horizontal shaft end is rotated upwards much more than usual. Best remove it and check the retaining pin, hole in the shaft and drive tang at the carb end. Compare it with another if possible.

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35 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

It seems to me that the horizontal shaft end is rotated upwards much more than usual. Best remove it and check the retaining pin, hole in the shaft and drive tang at the carb end. Compare it with another if possible.

Had same thought but picture is at angle and not sure.

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2 hours ago, Power of Red said:

First picture,throttle at idle. Tension on spring = clevis up passed the cover. No tension on spring when the pin is in place and throttle at low idle.  Two physical notches/marks on the pulley. No play in the distributor, no more points.....will take a vacuum reading once i get the fuel line and tank back in place

Governor and carb need to be in sync as I described. If hitting the cover. You need to find source of overtravel. Thrust bearing is first place to look. Seems to be there. How loose is it? How worn are pins in fork that contact bearing?

If the two marks on pulley are close together. They are TDC and after TDC for static timing. No timing light unless idling around 400 rpm so no advance.

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No way to now all your problems over line. should find three notches on pulley unless original changed or marked later. Two closes together is to ID TDC from other notch on around that is used to line up pilot bearing grease zerc in flywheel with access hole. First one of the two notches to reach pointer when turning engine normal rotation is TDC. Unless you know distributor is in good condition and engine will idle slow enough set distributor to TDC engine nor running. Light timing to TDC will result in slow time if distributor advance moves. Like snowshoe said the vertical link in governor should be adjusted. Looks like you may have the throttle linkage rod disconnected on governor arm. If so hold it so spring pulls the link all up, then holding lever up on throttle shaft adjust clevis so pin will slide in hole. Lot of slop in spring holes but have no effect after slack goes out on full power if spring over comes governor weights and will bring RPM up to wanted in reason with stock spring. Do you back lower stop bolt out when trying to raise RPM?  Going to have a longer dead spot when going off idle to start raising RPM If you worry about low rpm at idle the top stop bolt is adjusted to push rear hole back. After sorting governor out check hand throttle for moving governor arm to stop each way. Picture of what I do to spring holes. Noticed the sleeve doesn't look right on your governor unless picture is making it look that way. Governor pictured is set to 1900 RPM as pictured.

DSCN0162.JPG

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6 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

It seems to me that the horizontal shaft end is rotated upwards much more than usual. Best remove it and check the retaining pin, hole in the shaft and drive tang at the carb end. Compare it with another if possible.

the hole in the shaft looks oversized as well 

 

 Al,I should have better internals for your governor if you don't want to put bushings in it

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Update time, we now have a 3/8 fuel supply from  tank to carb with a home made finger strainer ( could not source a 3/8 one so i made it from scratch  ) 

The timing was too advanced by 10+ degrees. i had to drill out and retap the manifold to get my vacuum gauge on there, tun3d the carb a bit and at low idle i have about 18hg. but my concern is a hop in the needle. I think i might have a bad intake valve or guide.  I havent adjusted the valve since i own this thing... a tight valve might also be my issue. 

Then again, cap rotor and wires are still leftovers from the previous owner and are also due for a change and could also show on the vacuum reading.

Before i do anything else, i will do a compression test.

 

The latest tune gave me much more torque. It can lug itself aroud at low idle in road gear.  It could barely do that in 2nd before without stalling out.

I probably wont have time to mess around with  it before the first pull of the season.  June 1st will be a good indication of improvements. Fuel starvation was a big issue in the past,  just hope i am not last or second to last again 🤣.

 

P.s.  i was impress when i dried out the fuel tank for cleaning, there must have been 2 inches of rust flakes and mud in the bottom. I gained 5lbs of movable weight lol

 

 

IMG_9850.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Saturday was a beautiful day for pulling. The changes made a big difference off the track but not so much on it. The engine is running better but it still get lazy quick under load. The governor is just too worn out to be adjusted to work correctly. I will try to find one that is in better shape. I did three runs. 2 in 5500 lbs and one in 6500. The best pass was in 6500 but i had what felt like 1/2 the horspower of everyone else.  5500 was good i  1st gear , i tried 2nd gear for un and realized how much power is missing out of this thing.  Here's a video of the 5500 pass in 1st. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Check to see that the govenor is opening the carb all the way -- when pulling like that the govenor action should have the carb all the way open already , when you are near the end of the pull -- also check that the stop pin in the carb , for the throttle shaft  , is not letting the butterfly over travel

Some port polishing and a larger venturi carb will give more power

I assume you have to run at a "factory" RPM ?

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Engine off and moving things around by hand, travel is no issue. The issue is how loose the two arms are and the binding feeling about 1/2 way in the movement cycle. The governor is junk, time for a swap.  As for rpm limits, too high lol 2300 

 

 

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So gonna need to remove the linkage from the carb to see the stop pin wear -- also wear in the yoke that connects the carb

Everything in that govenor is rebuildable -- usually the thrust bearing and sometimes flat spots on the weights -- occasionally the weight pivot pins

The rest is adjustment between the govenor and the carb

2300 limit -- then run it at 2295 and pull on -- go big or go home -- that engine will take it

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