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acem

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That's certainly no Bud Light. I've heard of Bud heavy, but that's on a higher level. Man, I just love huge old tractors.

What came of Big Bud, the company? I sort of recall that someone with the assets is floating restarting production?

I tell you what, I think there'd be a market, if they made a stripped version of their contemporary competition, without all the complicated and expensive bells and whistles. Imagine a less expensive, simpler machine but without the reliability issues of being old. I'm too young to really remember those days.

Of course, I've said the same thing about road going vehicles and clearly no auto company agrees with me about there being a market.

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My idea of retirement is farming our first 1,000 acres with that one except switching out the engine for a 425 hp Cat 3406B series.  I have its little brother the HN 320 which has a factory 360 hp 855.  I wonder if this one is actually 360 hp or they just looked at the decals? These tractors were built for servicing.  Just look at all the pics of the underside.   Real easy to get to for greasing, batteries are up front in the bumper were can get to them, plus the everything between the radiator back to the transmission is mounted on a skid so that the whole thing slides out the front.  

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40 minutes ago, KWRB said:

That's certainly no Bud Light. I've heard of Bud heavy, but that's on a higher level. Man, I just love huge old tractors.

What came of Big Bud, the company? I sort of recall that someone with the assets is floating restarting production?

I tell you what, I think there'd be a market, if they made a stripped version of their contemporary competition, without all the complicated and expensive bells and whistles. Imagine a less expensive, simpler machine but without the reliability issues of being old. I'm too young to really remember those days.

Of course, I've said the same thing about road going vehicles and clearly no auto company agrees with me about there being a market.

They went bankrupt in the early 80s mostly because Twin Disc more or less screwed them over.  They had orders for 100 tractors and Ron Harmon went to the Seattle Bank to borrow the money to build them.  Loan was 18% and these tractors were over $100,000 a piece. Anyways Twin Disc wouldn’t deliver the transmissions on time after promising them and there was some problems with them too.  Long story short Ron had a 100 tractors sitting there with no transmissions with that high interest loan dangling out there and farmers started canceling orders.  It wasn’t until roughly about 15 years ago when Ron sold some land to build a Walmart in Havre that he was completely out from underneath that disaster.  

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44 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

They went bankrupt in the early 80s mostly because Twin Disc more or less screwed them over.  They had orders for 100 tractors and Ron Harmon went to the Seattle Bank to borrow the money to build them.  Loan was 18% and these tractors were over $100,000 a piece. Anyways Twin Disc wouldn’t deliver the transmissions on time after promising them and there was some problems with them too.  Long story short Ron had a 100 tractors sitting there with no transmissions with that high interest loan dangling out there and farmers started canceling orders.  It wasn’t until roughly about 15 years ago when Ron sold some land to build a Walmart in Havre that he was completely out from underneath that disaster.  

Ugh. That sucks. I friggin hate debt. I despise lenders about as much as I despise insurance companies. My family lost the farm on account of an insurance company denying a claim.

I don't know if it's possible to run a manufacturing without debts, but it would scare me so badly that I don't think I'd have the stomach for it.

As for debt, something permanent happened in my brain when I financed and graduated college with a "good" degree during a recession, and I couldn't find a job and had those loans to pay. It was like a much lesser version of how the depression changed people, causing excessive frugality and hoarders.

NEVER AGAIN.

Sorry about the tangent.

Thanks for the education!

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33 minutes ago, KWRB said:

Ugh. That sucks. I friggin hate debt. I despise lenders about as much as I despise insurance companies. My family lost the farm on account of an insurance company denying a claim.

I don't know if it's possible to run a manufacturing without debts, but it would scare me so badly that I don't think I'd have the stomach for it.

As for debt, something permanent happened in my brain when I financed and graduated college with a "good" degree during a recession, and I couldn't find a job and had those loans to pay. It was like a much lesser version of how the depression changed people, causing excessive frugality and hoarders.

NEVER AGAIN.

Sorry about the tangent.

Thanks for the education!

I can agree with not wanting loans but on that manufacturing level, it’s part of the business plan unfortunately.  I’m able to farm on my small scale without owing anyone a penny but I also farm with old equipment that I have to fix myself. Thankfully, parts are out there. In my former life, I was in debt from the day I was married until the day of divorce. I’m just as much to blame for it but never again. 

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22 minutes ago, Duntongw said:

So, did the 100 tractors get built, or are they just setting somewhere?

Course they got built.  They were already built just minus the transmissions that were suppose to be delivered.  They actually made some tractors afterwards but they just couldn't keep up with the debt load.  Anybody that has the book "Red 4WD Tractors 1957 to 2017" and has read how Steiger struggled early on after moving to Fargo.  That is exactly what Big Bud was going through in the early 80s struggling with financing trying to buy components, vendors not extending credit because of the already massive debt load. In  the 70s, tractors sales and the farm economy was on the upswing so Steiger eventually were able to persevere.  Not like the 80s when everything was going down the drain.  I think personally Big Bud would have eventually met the same fate anyway if the TD fiasco didn't happen but the downfall would not have been as bad.  

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7 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I never heard that story about Big Bud before. I guess I just always thought they quit because of mainline manufacturers crowding the market. I never realized they went bankrupt. 

Same here. Didn’t realize that was all part of the Big Bud story. 

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8 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I never heard that story about Big Bud before. I guess I just always thought they quit because of mainline manufacturers crowding the market. I never realized they went bankrupt. 

On that note I've always been curious how many Steiger 450/470/525s and Versatile 1150/56s were sold compared to Big Bud.  I'd bet none of these individually reach 500 units.  Then there is Rite that made made "mega" tractors and actually started out making bigger tractors then Big Bud.  

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30 minutes ago, 1566Hog said:

Same here. Didn’t realize that was all part of the Big Bud story. 

 

39 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I never heard that story about Big Bud before. I guess I just always thought they quit because of mainline manufacturers crowding the market. I never realized they went bankrupt. 

What was the final chapter in Big Bud is Meissners bought the assets at bankruptcy court in the mid 80s and built 21 tractors up to 1991.  Those last ones were Series 4s and used the same powershift transmission as the Steiger 1000/9000 series.  Meissners was the CIH dealer in Havre.  

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Interesting story about Big Bud, never heard about the transmission deal. 
Does anyone know anything about the Knudson tractor? I have seen toys of them, but have never seen a real one. Something about a cab tall enough to stand up in.

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16 hours ago, KWRB said:

I don't know if it's possible to run a manufacturing without debts, but it would scare me so badly that I don't think I'd have the stomach for it.

Ruger did it. 

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If you look at this law suit it explains the problems. Apparently the controller for the transmission built by another company wasn’t able to standup. Creating problems for big bud. Twin disc then started a collection action when big bud stopped paying for transmissions. Then they had to buy them on a cash as delivered

23183810-56A1-4997-A133-719D5392D9E4.png

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

If you look at this law suit it explains the problems. Apparently the controller for the transmission built by another company wasn’t able to standup. Creating problems for big bud. Twin disc then started a collection action when big bud stopped paying for transmissions. Then they had to buy them on a cash as delivered

 

Big Bud counter sued for almost $60,000,000 for incurred damages from TD's failure to deliver transmissions on time and transmissions that worked plus loss of production time and punitive damages. Course they lost.  

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1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

Big Bud counter sued for almost $60,000,000 for incurred damages from TD's failure to deliver transmissions on time and transmissions that worked plus loss of production time and punitive damages. Course they lost.  

Being twin disc was a Wisconsin corp they had to sue in Wisconsin and use Wisconsin courts. The final shakedown was if big bud was a farmer they would have won. But being they were a mfg using sourced products under Wisconsin law they assumed liability or were not entitled to damages. If you read farther into big bud was having payment issues before and the warranty problems compounded problems

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18-20% interest causes a lot of problems and failures. Early to mid eighties was a horrific time for a lot of people. I’m sure most everyone is feeling the pain of increased interest compared to a few years ago. The pain is real but nowhere near 18% real. 

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18% interest would weed out a lot of BTO's locally. 160 acres next to one of our farms sold last month. One 80 went for $15k/acre the other 80 was a little more, time for a correction on ag in our area.  Extremely cheap interest for a long period of time like we have seen for the last decade only makes for bankruptcy when interest goes up. 

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