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Things are done a little differently nowadays


lotsaIHCs

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6 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

Tsb 21-EM-003H outlines the procedure. It is a royal PITA!

You can probably change the engine in the time it takes to do this test?

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1 hour ago, Diesel Doctor said:

You can probably change the engine in the time it takes to do this test?

The oil consumption test pays .6 hr for the initial visit with documentation, tamper evident paint application and whatever else goes along with it. .6 hr=36 minutes. Then the test itself, for the 3 visits, refills, documentation and paperwork pays another .6. If the result is fail, the combustion chamber cleaning pays 2.3 hr.  The subsequent consumption test after the cleaning pays, again, .6. Replacing the engine pays 5.1 to 6.3 depending in model. And as anyone who does factory warranty work in a dealership under the flat rate system knows that these times are usually way below what it actually takes, especially if the tech is committed to doing the job right. That's part of the reason some techs take shortcuts to cut time. They arent getting paid for all of the time they have into the job. I'm at the point in my career where I'm no longer flat rate. I spend too much time helping the younger, learning techs with a sort of on the job training. I get paid the same no matter what. And I'm one of those people who will be laying in bed at night worrying that I may have put the black bolt in the place where the silver one was supposed to go to hold on a bracket or something. A little OCD about the car should look like nothing has been touched since it left the factory. 

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14 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

Oil consumption test is having the oil level checked and topped off 3 times over the course of around 3,000 miles. If the result is that it consumes more than a quart per 1,000 miles, there is a cleaning procedure where we inject a solvent into the cylinders, pressurize the cylinders with air to force the solvent into the oil control rings to free them up. Then additional solvent is injected, tubes installed between cylinders 1-3 and 2-4, the engine is cranked over to agitate the solvent by pushing it back and forth between the cylinder pairs and then letting the solvent sit in the cylinders for at least 8 hours. The remaining solvent is then suctioned out, the oil and filter are changed and the oil consumption test is performed again. If it passes this time, the vehicle is returned to the customer. If it again fails and it qualifies under the warranty, the engine is replaced. The cleaning procedure works about half the time.

Is that specific to the engine or a general procedure?

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9 hours ago, acem said:

Is that specific to the engine or a general procedure?

There are a few engines involved. Mostly 1.8 and 2.0 liter for a specific time frame. I think there are also some 2.4 involved too. But it applies to several 4 cylinder engines.

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5 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

There are a few engines involved. Mostly 1.8 and 2.0 liter for a specific time frame. I think there are also some 2.4 involved too. But it applies to several 4 cylinder engines.

My OCD about putting things back exactly as they were from the factory, however, does not matter on which engine it is. I'll look at an engine and will tell my service manager that someone has been into this before. I have a real problem when things arent EXACTLY as they should be! It bothers me to no end if a bolt is put in the wrong place! My coworkers think I'm half nuts but I need to have everything as it is supposed to be. Maybe not ocd but just the way I'm wired. It has to be right.

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Years ago our local Honda motorcycle and industrial engines dealer scored a trip to Honda in Japan.

He came back talking of the wonders of sintered metal e.g gears formed with metal powder and cooked into shape.

I'd wonder if that might not be how those rods are made, with some high tech weakening across the big end part line so they break cleanly without distortion?

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3 hours ago, Ian Beale said:

Years ago our local Honda motorcycle and industrial engines dealer scored a trip to Honda in Japan.

He came back talking of the wonders of sintered metal e.g gears formed with metal powder and cooked into shape.

I'd wonder if that might not be how those rods are made, with some high tech weakening across the big end part line so they break cleanly without distortion?

Cryogenically frozen then snapped.

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My experience with powdered metal was in high speed steel for cutting tools. 
Brown & Sharpe who I worked for at the time had their own HSS alloy called Sharpealloy this used powdered metal technology to get a more consistent “grain” structure for better finishes in forming operations when making form relief cutter shapes 

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22 hours ago, lotsaIHCs said:

The oil consumption test pays .6 hr for the initial visit with documentation, tamper evident paint application and whatever else goes along with it. .6 hr=36 minutes. Then the test itself, for the 3 visits, refills, documentation and paperwork pays another .6. If the result is fail, the combustion chamber cleaning pays 2.3 hr.  The subsequent consumption test after the cleaning pays, again, .6. Replacing the engine pays 5.1 to 6.3 depending in model. And as anyone who does factory warranty work in a dealership under the flat rate system knows that these times are usually way below what it actually takes, especially if the tech is committed to doing the job right. That's part of the reason some techs take shortcuts to cut time. They arent getting paid for all of the time they have into the job. I'm at the point in my career where I'm no longer flat rate. I spend too much time helping the younger, learning techs with a sort of on the job training. I get paid the same no matter what. And I'm one of those people who will be laying in bed at night worrying that I may have put the black bolt in the place where the silver one was supposed to go to hold on a bracket or something. A little OCD about the car should look like nothing has been touched since it left the factory. 

You are the Tech who the every day person should get every time. 

You "Give-A-Sh!t!"

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On 11/24/2023 at 8:15 AM, Diesel Doctor said:
On 11/24/2023 at 1:24 AM, lotsaIHCs said:

Tsb 21-EM-003H outlines the procedure. It is a royal PITA!

You can probably change the engine in the time it takes to do this test?

Sounds like a hail Mary to avoid engine replacement for the OEM

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They only repair/replace if oil consumption is "excessive". They define excessive. Years ago they told my mother that a qt. every thousand in her 6 cyl. Chevy was normal and not a warranteed repair. She informed them that none of her previous Chevys used oil and that this would be her last. She was in her sixties at the time and had Chevy 6 cyl  cars all her life but not after that one.

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On 11/22/2023 at 10:47 AM, lotsaIHCs said:

The days of connecting rods being precision machined where the caps and rods meet are gone. Now the rods are broken off to make the cap to rod connection more rigid. No machining is done so all of the irregularities in the broken apart halves mesh and can't move around.  These rods happen to be from a 2011 model so the process has been around for a while.

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New Holland used the fractured cap technique at least as far back as the late 80s on their big square baler knotters.  Cap that holds the knotter to the main shaft is fractured off the knotter frame.  

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A different look at oil consumption

When the Jaguar E Type came out Road and Track got chassis #9 for their road test.  And reported high oil comsumption.

Seems the rationalle was that the first run of a car that looked like that had the chance of a snowflake in h e l l of getting run in properly.  So the early ones were built loose - better a mention of high oil consumption than headlines of siezed engines.  And fixed later.

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11 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

You are the Tech who the every day person should get every time. 

You "Give-A-Sh!t!"

Thank you for that! I do give a bleep. Every comeback makes me look bad. And it makes the dealership look bad. I strive for no comebacks. I may not be as fast as some techs but my goal is for customers to have their vehicle fixed right first time, every time. Of course, there are always instances where something unforeseen happens, but I try. I want to do my job as if another tech can look at my work and not be able to tell that anyone ever worked on it before. Wire harnesses HAVE to be routed as they were from the factory. Every bolt HAS to be in the hole it came out of. My service manager gives me sh!t about it, but I can't do it any other way. Either it's done right or it's WRONG!

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11 hours ago, int 504 said:

They only repair/replace if oil consumption is "excessive". They define excessive. Years ago they told my mother that a qt. every thousand in her 6 cyl. Chevy was normal and not a warranteed repair. She informed them that none of her previous Chevys used oil and that this would be her last. She was in her sixties at the time and had Chevy 6 cyl  cars all her life but not after that one.

A lot of the problem lies in that now manufacturers are going the route of once a year or 6 to 8 thousand mile oil changes. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, my dad changed his oil every 2 or 3 thousand miles. I realize that oils are much better than at that time, but people have the perception that they don't have to check their oil. After 8k miles, they might be 3 or 4 quarts low.  Or even no oil.  I've seen it many times. Now they are trying to keep maintenance costs low for the owner. So the owner has the idea that since our drivetrain warranty is 10 years or 100k miles, they are exempt from having to do maintenance.  I've seen a lot of vehicles with 30k miles that have never had an oil change because they think they are covered by warranty.

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I don’t think I have had a engine that uses any oil between changes for 25 years and the changes are being done when monitoring system says 10-20% which is usually 6-7k.

I do use synthetic 

Most of my cars and trucks have a low oil monitoring system these are a must with most female operators 

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10 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

I don’t think I have had a engine that uses any oil between changes for 25 years and the changes are being done when monitoring system says 10-20% which is usually 6-7k.

I do use synthetic 

Most of my cars and trucks have a low oil monitoring system these are a must with most female operators 

I haven't figured out why our manufacturer doesn't put low oil sensors in all of their cars. They have them in some, but not all. I think most of the oil consumption problems come from people who don't service their cars as they should. The one I'm working on now has seized oil rings. Maybe a maintenance problem or a design flaw. I don't know. 

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10 hours ago, 5088 said:

I think the engines you're referring to are part of the World engine family?  Chrysler uses the 2.4 and we have serious issues with them too.

I would be curious if the piston or ring part numbers have changed in the newest production years of these motors sounds like a design oversight to me 

If they use that much oil it is getting exchanged actively if the level is kept full 

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12 hours ago, Gearclash said:

I *think* the GM 3.1 V-6 in the ‘94 Olds Cutlass had a low oil sensor. 

My 99 Silverado with the 5.3 has one and it comes on when one quart low.

It is actually rather nice to have.

This warning would be a great reminder for those who know little to nothing about an engine.

And to the mechanic that is to busy working on other peoples stuff and hasn't pulled his own stick.

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Guess it still doesn't stop them from popping out and saying hello! This mech pump FPT has fractured caps as modern FPT engines do.

You still got to put oil in.

The newer Perkins 1104d/1106 engine had no tangs on the big end bearing shells ment to use a tool to center the shells in the caps before fitting.

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12 hours ago, 5088 said:

I think the engines you're referring to are part of the World engine family?  Chrysler uses the 2.4 and we have serious issues with them too.

Some of them are. The 2.0T and 2.4 are both part of the world engine family used by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Kia, Hyundai and others. The one I am working on now isn't part of the world.engine family. I'm getting tired of having it here. Waiting on the extended warranty company to send out their inspector. 

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