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case 1835c uniloader loader pump problems


Mild Bill

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Hi Folks,

I have an early made case 1835c uniloader skidloader that had one of the bolts that holds the pump that runs the loader come out at some time, not sure when.  As a result the teeth in the coupler spline are gone... and the teeth on the pump shaft are useless. 

This one is the 11 spine version, not the later 13 spline version.

Getting the parts through a Case-IH dealer is not an option as they are obsolete and this model did not share these as common with other models.... ugh.

I have gotten a new pump with an 11 spine shaft through a hydraulic vendor.

as far as the coupler goes,   in the process of getting a section of spline and having a machine shop bore the old coupler out, press the new one in and weld it.

a challenge, the one spline chunk I have is hardened steel the rest of the coupler is not... joining these two is not ideal... risk of cracks etc.

I have another chunk of spline on the way in the mail that is cold rolled steel, supposed to be machinable and weldable, hopefully all will fit and we can proceed.

Any wisdom or insight anyone can share on this part?

 

The next question is, I will likley have to drain the hydraulic fluid from the machine as the feed hose to this pump is at the bottom of the hydraulic reservoir.

Do I save the old oil that to my knowledge has been in it since it left the factory in 1988 or 89 or figure out how to put new in along with a filter change.  It has right at 4000 hours on it.

If you are not familiar, these machines use 10w-30 motor with an additive package for the hydraulic fluid.  They don't make the additive anymore but I was told that one of or maybe the case-ih 10w-30 has the additive in it to begin with now.

Any thoughts or wisdom on question #2?

 

Thanks!!!

 

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If that machine has made it over 30 years and 4,000 hours without a single blown hydraulic hose or serious leak that has basically emptied the reservoir, it’s is better than any machine I’ve ever been around. One of our Deere/New Holland machines specs 10W-30. I would put new oil in it and not give it a second thought. I would wager almost any new oil is better than old dirty oil. This is a similar situation to the much debated topic on IH dozers that spec 10W engine oil in the transmission, which is hard to find anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Mild Bill said:

Hi Folks,

I have an early made case 1835c uniloader skidloader that had one of the bolts that holds the pump that runs the loader come out at some time, not sure when.  As a result the teeth in the coupler spline are gone... and the teeth on the pump shaft are useless. 

This one is the 11 spine version, not the later 13 spline version.

Getting the parts through a Case-IH dealer is not an option as they are obsolete and this model did not share these as common with other models.... ugh.

I have gotten a new pump with an 11 spine shaft through a hydraulic vendor.

as far as the coupler goes,   in the process of getting a section of spline and having a machine shop bore the old coupler out, press the new one in and weld it.

a challenge, the one spline chunk I have is hardened steel the rest of the coupler is not... joining these two is not ideal... risk of cracks etc.

I have another chunk of spline on the way in the mail that is cold rolled steel, supposed to be machinable and weldable, hopefully all will fit and we can proceed.

Any wisdom or insight anyone can share on this part?

 

The next question is, I will likley have to drain the hydraulic fluid from the machine as the feed hose to this pump is at the bottom of the hydraulic reservoir.

Do I save the old oil that to my knowledge has been in it since it left the factory in 1988 or 89 or figure out how to put new in along with a filter change.  It has right at 4000 hours on it.

If you are not familiar, these machines use 10w-30 motor with an additive package for the hydraulic fluid.  They don't make the additive anymore but I was told that one of or maybe the case-ih 10w-30 has the additive in it to begin with now.

Any thoughts or wisdom on question #2?

 

Thanks!!!

 

I assume the additive is an anti foaming agent? Curious why 10-30 with additives not hytran or similar. 

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2 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

I assume the additive is an anti foaming agent? Curious why 10-30 with additives not hytran or similar. 

 

5 minutes ago, hardtail said:

Good question.  I don’t know that either.  

The “HTO” additive that Case  used to sell did have ZDDP (a highly effective antiwear additive) listed as one of its main ingredients, aside from the mineral oil carrier.  There may have been a few other minor additives in there as well.  

I gave up on HTO as being too expensive and started using premium quality hydraulic fluids in my Case skidsteers.  Couldn’t see a reason why that would be a problem, and thus far the guts of the hydraulics haven’t come spilling out all over.  

That being said, if a person starts digging into the ZDDP concentrations of various oils, it seems that some engine oils have higher ZDDP levels than the premium hydraulic oils.  The highest level of ZDDP content that I have seen is John Deere break in oil that I believe has ZDDP levels at something like 5,000 ppm; compare that to premium hydraulic oils that typically have ZDDP levels of 1,200 ppm.  

Can’t help you on the couple side of your problem much.  My experience is with the 1835B which has a different pump group and a different engine.  From what I’ve seen on the Bs, the pump shaft splines were much harder than the coupler splines so it is always the coupler spline that wears out.  That is not a hard fix.  Pretty sure everything for the 1835B coupler can be found from some other vendor than Case.  The one time I replaced an 1835B coupler, I found that it made far more sense to move the engine back rather than move the pump group forward to gain the space needed to R & R the coupler.  The book procedure to replace the coupler was patently absurd.

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New Holland used 134A hydraulic fluid up until the LS/LX565 thru 885 series. Then they went to using 10-30 diesel oil like Case. We were told it was to make it easier for the customers. Especially contractors. One oil for everything. New Holland did not require an additive like Case. Don't know why.

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ATF is some seriously tortured hydraulic fluid. I would not be afraid to run that in any old hydraulic system in good condition.

As for your coupling issue welding a coupling on sounds like temporary at best. 

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Don’t be using ATF in a hydro system!  Might be OK in a gear pump only system but anything with an axial piston pump I say no! There is not much ZDDP in the stuff and the slippers of an axial pump need an antiwear additive.  ATF is not considered a very good lubricant.

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Deere used to use Type F transmission fluid in all combine hydrostats until 1988, I think. I have an old Case hydrostatic trencher that says Type F in that as well. I don’t know if modern atf is a lot different that it used to be, but I assume it is. It certainly would be a lot thinnner than the 10W-30 the OP said it specs. 

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I got the machine repaired.  Further discussed the oil situation with a reputable dealer, and one of the current caseih oils does have the HTO additive equivalent already in it.

New oil replaced whatever came out, which was dark and rough looking.  I was also pleasantly surprised to find the hydraulic filter had been changed at least once since new.

I replaced it too.  It is a pain to get at on these machines with my big arms...

So far so good... knock on wood.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/12/2023 at 8:58 AM, Gearclash said:

Don’t be using ATF in a hydro system!  Might be OK in a gear pump only system but anything with an axial piston pump I say no! There is not much ZDDP in the stuff and the slippers of an axial pump need an antiwear additive.  ATF is not considered a very good lubricant.

The only piston pump I am running is in my log splitter. 5000 psi in tank pump. Been running Dextron in it for thirty years with out incident. Lucky I guess. Mustang specs atf in their manual. 
 

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