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345 vs 392 pulling power in 10 wheeler


acem

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Is there much difference in pulling power between a 345 and 392 when used in a 10 wheeler?

Reason I ask is a friend has a nice loadstar 10 wheeler I'm considering. It has a 345 which concerns me power wise. I have a couple single axle trucks with 345 and they do ok on the flats but it takes about all they have to pull the steeper hills (small mountains) round here when fully loaded.

I have a 392 I could swap out if needed.

Thx-Ace 

 

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Most 345's ive ever seen including both of ours are 2 barrels. I wanna swap ours to 4 barrel setups. I just dont know why IH was so stingy with 4 barrels. 

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  • Back in the mid-70's we used 345's in our single axle trucks at the feed mill that carried 9 ton of bulk, bag or both. They pulled pretty good on gravel roads in the farm delivery country and we had a 250-300 radius of NE Nebraska into Iowa, Minnesota and parts of South Dakota and Kansas.  Can't say as I know what your terrain is like, but they did a fair job 5 days a week.  Later they gave me a new 392 to use but the fuel mileage went down with the 4 barrel until it was empty; then it ran well and sucked a little less.  Same specs on the chassis as the 345 rigs.
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I have to pull two steep grades hauling soybeans. On the worst grade I always have to go slow no matter what I'm hauling with.

My single axle loadstars with 345 hauling 250 bushels can pull the grade in third gear (5 speed). If I miss third I stop and it will launch in 1st but I can't get back 3rd.

With my 9370 with 350 Cummins hauling 800 bushels I get down to 4th gear. If I miss 4th and stop I can launch and get back to 4th.

I'd like a 10 wheeler so my wife can haul soybeans for me. She's good with straight trucks but can't back a trailer to save her life. I'm not sure she could float gears either...

I think the 10 wheeler would pull the grade in second or first with the 345. The 10 wheeler only has 50,000 miles and my single axle trucks are around a quarter million on the original motors so that would make a difference too. 

I have neighbors who used to run 10 wheelers running 392 or 427. However they were relatively new not 50 years old...

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Knew a local with a tag axle Loadstar, maybe a 1700 and I believe it was a 345. It got the job done for years but could have used more power on the hills. I hauled over 300 bushels on my 1600 Loadstar for years with just the little 304 with 4 speed and 2 speed axle. Yes, it seems seriously under powered, until I get into the old S160 and start hauling 1200 gallons of water with the little BD 240 engine. Then I'm wishing it had a 304. 

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Load lighter and go more often? Kind of defeats the purpose of more axles. have some consideration for your wife driving some woefully underpowered POS. An old friend of mine told this story of the 50's or 60's. He worked for a local company hauling anything and everything otr. Single axle tractors. They sent him to Pennsylvania for a load of steel. Was loaded heavy as usual. He made back within 15 or so miles of the factory where there were two steep hills with a bridge over a stream inbetween. Ran as hard as he dared going down the first hill but he missed  a shift going up the second. Got it stopped but not enough power to start the load so he backed down and as far back up the other hill as he could. This was a fairly major two lane road.... Repeated this performance 3 times and got less distance up the hill each time. Parked tractor and trailer on side of road. State police found him and the tractor wouldn't pull up onto scale due to lack of power. They called owner who sent another tractor to pull in tandem. Owner said fine wasn't all that much and sent him for another load. He said he made sure not to stop where it wasn't flat and never missed any more shifts.

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I've been running the semi with hopper bottom for several years now but would like to supplement it with a 10 wheeler. More of an alternative than running both.

I'm tired of driving 100 miles round trip with 250 bushels of soybeans. 400 would work out ok not 200-250.

I'd love a nice 10 wheeler with a DT466 but they are hard to find here setup as a grain truck. Most everything is a gas burner. Most were originally single axle, small V8 with the grain bed and drag axle added later. It would be easier to find one with a 6 cylinder Detroit than DT466. 

I'm unusual that I have to pull steep grades hauling soybeans. Just a few places like that in Arkansas. I guess it's the price I pay for living in the Ozarks and having nice views...

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The year i was on the ranch the first week of wheat harvest the semi and the loadstar with the 345 and 300 bushel box were the only running truck, with the semi being the surge tank. I was running all i could do to keep my head above water. Till the ford 9000 with 855 cummins and 600 bushel  was ready. That made life so much easier it was a 30 mile round trip. I could haul 3 loads in the time 2 took with the loadstar. While also hauling 2x as much.

Moral of the story, i could not Imagine hauling for a modern combine with a loadstar again. always want more motor.

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How many loads per year would you expect to need it? It might be ok but slow. We had a 392 in an air brake single axle 1969 loadstar with the wing hoods . It was a powerhouse for a gas job. It would have hauled twice what the 1970 F750 we had at the same time with a 391 ....both 5 speed and two speed rears 

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I usually haul 1 to 4 thousand bushels of soybeans per year. Most years it's around 2500 but may get closer to 4000 this year.

At 3000 bushels that's 4 loads with the semi or 12 loads with a single axle. A 400 bushel 10 wheeler would take 8 trips.

Because of the 100 mile round trip and lines at the barge terminal it's a one trip day. I'd really like to have something my wife would drive. 

My semi truck (85 IH 9370, 350 Cummins, 13 speed) is a pretty good truck. However my hopper bottom is not so great. Good hopper bottoms are expensive round here. Even worn out ones bring pretty good money...

I considered getting the 10 wheeler loadstar and if it don't pull good enough taking the bed off (22 ft with gallion twin hoist) and putting it on the 9370. But I'd need to extend the frame and everything. It'd be a major job.

Idk. I'm just thinking and looking for options.

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46 minutes ago, acem said:

I've been running the semi with hopper bottom for several years now but would like to supplement it with a 10 wheeler. More of an alternative than running both.

I'm tired of driving 100 miles round trip with 250 bushels of soybeans. 400 would work out ok not 200-250.

I'd love a nice 10 wheeler with a DT466 but they are hard to find here setup as a grain truck. Most everything is a gas burner. Most were originally single axle, small V8 with the grain bed and drag axle added later. It would be easier to find one with a 6 cylinder Detroit than DT466. 

I'm unusual that I have to pull steep grades hauling soybeans. Just a few places like that in Arkansas. I guess it's the price I pay for living in the Ozarks and having nice views...

You don't have truck jockeys were you live??  There are jockeys here that built million dollar businesses buying semi trucks or any truck on the cheap, adding a grain box to them, and tripling the price to us dumb lazy farmers that didn't want to it ourselves.  Those kind of trucks are all over the place up here.  You could also lower standards and look at other trucks.  When we needed another tandem, we found a 1995 Ford L8000NT with a 8.3 Cummins.  It was originally a Fish and Wildlife truck used for hauling fish.  Some jock took it in, moved the tandems back, added wet kit and grain box.  

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16 hours ago, acem said:

Is there much difference in pulling power between a 345 and 392 when used in a 10 wheeler?

Reason I ask is a friend has a nice loadstar 10 wheeler I'm considering. It has a 345 which concerns me power wise. I have a couple single axle trucks with 345 and they do ok on the flats but it takes about all they have to pull the steeper hills (small mountains) round here when fully loaded.

I have a 392 I could swap out if needed.

Thx-Ace 

 

.....this won't answer your question ,Ace...but  I had 392  and Allison   trans  in  two trucks   (new ...Australian built)...this for gravelling on new ...very ''green ''  Forestry roads.. The configuration was  6x4...but you blokes get so wound up with counting the bloody wheels , so I imagine we are talking about  much  the same deal....!!!  Also had a new 4x2  similarly equipped..  We used the trucks over the Forestry summer break to cart hay..using trailers and although slow . those trucks pulled over some serious hills around these parts...Of course the big downfall was the amount of petrol they could turn into exhaust gas...and eventually the 392's were swapped out by International    Harvester  (NZ)   for 555   Cummins....which , contrary to what I have read on this site over many years, gave us an excellent return on investment....with the Allison auto, those engines were absolutely trouble free.....

Gravelling Forestry roads in our hill country....roads that had to be finished by 4.00 am on a Monday morning for the log trucks, those petrol powered IH were supreme ...for one very basic reason......front axle tare ..

My initial opposition used British Leyland and ERF   trucks .....we could pull around them with the IH  trucks...as they were bogged down  with the front axle barely visible in the soft ' green '   road formation...    Big heavy Leyland  or Cummins Diesel engines had the tare weight on the front end waaaay above the IH  trucks  .Soon we had no opposition !!    Remember it rains in New Zealand .......!!!! Used IH for many years then went to Mack

Good times !!!!

Mike

 

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6 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

You don't have truck jockeys were you live??  There are jockeys here that built million dollar businesses buying semi trucks or any truck on the cheap, adding a grain box to them, and tripling the price to us dumb lazy farmers that didn't want to it ourselves.  Those kind of trucks are all over the place up here.  You could also lower standards and look at other trucks.  When we needed another tandem, we found a 1995 Ford L8000NT with a 8.3 Cummins.  It was originally a Fish and Wildlife truck used for hauling fish.  Some jock took it in, moved the tandems back, added wet kit and grain box.  

I don't live in a crop production area. Mostly cattle, poultry and timber round here. I'm an oddity as a crop farmer in my county. There were a lot of 10 wheelers in eastern Arkansas but they have been replaced with hopper bottoms pulled by semis and most of the old 10 wheelers were scraped there and here..

Just after I bought my 9370 I watched a 4370, 350, 9 speed and 22 ft dump bed sell for $2500 at an auction in Eastern Arkansas. Should have bought it but hindsight is 20-20...

And 'self unloading' is mandatory here. Nobody dumps trucks anymore.

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Trouble is most haven't been driven in years and are not road worthy enough to drive home.

If it's over 150 air miles ( or in Arkansas) my farm exemption don't work. it's a little tricky getting a 10 wheeler home with a pickup. Shipping would be killer...

I know where a nice local fleetstar with a 6 cylinder Detroit and air brakes is. Unfortunately it's a semi truck and I'm back to changing it over.

My friend who has the loadstar 10 wheeler lives/farms on the other side of the mountain. His trips were relatively flat. It worked great for him. He's retired now.

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1 hour ago, mike newman said:

.....this won't answer your question ,Ace...but  I had 392  and Allison   trans  in  two trucks   (new ...Australian built)...this for gravelling on new ...very ''green ''  Forestry roads.. The configuration was  6x4...but you blokes get so wound up with counting the bloody wheels , so I imagine we are talking about  much  the same deal....!!!  Also had a new 4x2  similarly equipped..  We used the trucks over the Forestry summer break to cart hay..using trailers and although slow . those trucks pulled over some serious hills around these parts...Of course the big downfall was the amount of petrol they could turn into exhaust gas...and eventually the 392's were swapped out by International    Harvester  (NZ)   for 555   Cummins....which , contrary to what I have read on this site over many years, gave us an excellent return on investment....with the Allison auto, those engines were absolutely trouble free.....

Gravelling Forestry roads in our hill country....roads that had to be finished by 4.00 am on a Monday morning for the log trucks, those petrol powered IH were supreme ...for one very basic reason......front axle tare ..

My initial opposition used British Leyland and ERF   trucks .....we could pull around them with the IH  trucks...as they were bogged down  with the front axle barely visible in the soft ' green '   road formation...    Big heavy Leyland  or Cummins Diesel engines had the tare weight on the front end waaaay above the IH  trucks  .Soon we had no opposition !!    Remember it rains in New Zealand .......!!!! Used IH for many years then went to Mack

Good times !!!!

Mike

 

How much were you hauling?

I'd be grossing around 40,000 lb (18,009 kg).

I know you've got steep grades there Mike.

I don't know the % grade on mine but it's steep, has a tight curve at the bottom (can't get a running start) and is probably a half a mile long.

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1 hour ago, acem said:

I looked it up. 

It's a 5 percent grade for a mile, approximately.

There are steeper grades round here but I don't generally haul soybeans on them...

We routinely crossed the scales with 43000 once it was 46000 on two loadstar 1600 that I know own. Factory 345; 4 speeds with 2 speed 16000 lb rears. Power houses they were not. Dads farming buddy had a c65 5 and 2 speed 366 it. Would run away from the ih with the same loads.  The one truck we have got a reman 392 but kept the 2bbl setup off the 345. We used to pull a gravel road hill with a 5 % grade for about a 1/2 mile it was always fun going up that.

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