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Eaton fuller question


Missouri Mule

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I know theres a few truck guys here so i thought id ask. My tandem truck hasnt been wanting to go into OD when its cold. After a few miles and things warm up it will go and then work fine all day. Next cold morning same thing. The air spool valve will shift and the cylinder will just blow air out the vent facing bottom in the picture. Once it finally does shift it stops venting air out the bottom. So im hoping my cylinder seals are wore and bypassing air when its cold. This is a roadranger 6613 or 13 speed with deep reduction. i know theres 4 bolts to remove the cover and a nut on the shift rail (whatever its actually called) then you can remove the air cylinder portion to acess the seals i need to change. My question is does the shift fork and rail stay in place in the transmission or is it something that can fall out and cause me bigger issues? Anyone took one apart before?? The smaller line on top is from my shifter knob, and works fine(i pulled the line off to verify)  the larger air line is straight from the air regulator and seems to have good air pressure. I replaced that regulator a year ago because it leaked. once it finally decides to shift it will work just fine. It also could be gummed up too maybe. Either way needs to come apart to see. 

20231021_122107.jpg

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3 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

I know theres a few truck guys here so i thought id ask. My tandem truck hasnt been wanting to go into OD when its cold. After a few miles and things warm up it will go and then work fine all day. Next cold morning same thing. The air spool valve will shift and the cylinder will just blow air out the vent facing bottom in the picture. Once it finally does shift it stops venting air out the bottom. So im hoping my cylinder seals are wore and bypassing air when its cold. This is a roadranger 6613 or 13 speed with deep reduction. i know theres 4 bolts to remove the cover and a nut on the shift rail (whatever its actually called) then you can remove the air cylinder portion to acess the seals i need to change. My question is does the shift fork and rail stay in place in the transmission or is it something that can fall out and cause me bigger issues? Anyone took one apart before?? The smaller line on top is from my shifter knob, and works fine(i pulled the line off to verify)  the larger air line is straight from the air regulator and seems to have good air pressure. I replaced that regulator a year ago because it leaked. once it finally decides to shift it will work just fine. It also could be gummed up too maybe. Either way needs to come apart to see. 

20231021_122107.jpg

Drain your air tanks. Pour some alcohol in the line off your compressor. Usually there’s garbage either in the shifter or the transmission. 
My truck doesn’t want to go to the high side when it’s cold, -20 or so. If I spend the time and get it to shift the first time, sitting, it’s good until I let it sit again. 

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4 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

I know theres a few truck guys here so i thought id ask. My tandem truck hasnt been wanting to go into OD when its cold. After a few miles and things warm up it will go and then work fine all day. Next cold morning same thing. The air spool valve will shift and the cylinder will just blow air out the vent facing bottom in the picture. Once it finally does shift it stops venting air out the bottom. So im hoping my cylinder seals are wore and bypassing air when its cold. This is a roadranger 6613 or 13 speed with deep reduction. i know theres 4 bolts to remove the cover and a nut on the shift rail (whatever its actually called) then you can remove the air cylinder portion to acess the seals i need to change. My question is does the shift fork and rail stay in place in the transmission or is it something that can fall out and cause me bigger issues? Anyone took one apart before?? The smaller line on top is from my shifter knob, and works fine(i pulled the line off to verify)  the larger air line is straight from the air regulator and seems to have good air pressure. I replaced that regulator a year ago because it leaked. once it finally decides to shift it will work just fine. It also could be gummed up too maybe. Either way needs to come apart to see. 

20231021_122107.jpg

First things first if you have a 6613 with deep reduction you don’t have overdrive. Just low high and low low in rear aux section. Does it shift into low low gears okay. You can’t really change all parts without pulling aux case. Which you can do with main unit in place. It is really best on those to pull rear cover and change synchro in there.  That requires timing of the gears when going back together. I would try the air line alcohol to Clean stuff up first. Here is shifter diagram

55D74A08-C33F-4553-BEF8-DADD224FF44A.png

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3 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

Drain your air tanks. Pour some alcohol in the line off your compressor. Usually there’s garbage either in the shifter or the transmission. 
My truck doesn’t want to go to the high side when it’s cold, -20 or so. If I spend the time and get it to shift the first time, sitting, it’s good until I let it sit again. 

I set you up on this. When i say cold i mean 50* f. Thats cold to me

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Get some PB blaster air tool conditioner.  It’s like solvent and air tool oil mixed.  See if you can get some in both air lines going to that.  This has worked for me on some truck PTO air actuators and helped me get a few dump truck tailgate lock cylinders freed up.

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2 minutes ago, Paystar5000 said:

Get some PB blaster air tool conditioner.  It’s like solvent and air tool oil mixed.  See if you can get some in both air lines going to that.  This has worked for me on some truck PTO air actuators and helped me get a few dump truck tailgate lock cylinders freed up.

I did remove both air lines on the valve and squirt some LPS in there best i could. Didnt help. 

I do have pb air tool conditioner, and ill give it a try

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2 hours ago, dale560 said:

First things first if you have a 6613 with deep reduction you don’t have overdrive. Just low high and low low in rear aux section. Does it shift into low low gears okay. You can’t really change all parts without pulling aux case. Which you can do with main unit in place. It is really best on those to pull rear cover and change synchro in there.  That requires timing of the gears when going back together. I would try the air line alcohol to Clean stuff up first. Here is shifter diagram

55D74A08-C33F-4553-BEF8-DADD224FF44A.png

Dale. Im not a truck guy. 

So line ticket and dash sticker says RR6613

Chrome knob has low, direct, and OD.

I have low, 1 2 3 4 gears.

Now, your telling me i cant pull #9 to acess the #10 nut so i can pull #12 housing off the #13 shaft to gain acess to 4,5, and 7 orings? 

My compressor passes enough oil to keep things moving im sure its about wore out but my new dryer catches alot of it. 

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8 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

Dale. Im not a truck guy. 

So line ticket and dash sticker says RR6613

Chrome knob has low, direct, and OD.

I have low, 1 2 3 4 gears.

Now, your telling me i cant pull #9 to acess the #10 nut so i can pull #12 housing off the #13 shaft to gain acess to 4,5, and 7 orings? 

My compressor passes enough oil to keep things moving im sure its about wore out but my new dryer catches alot of it. 

no you should be able to disassemble everything on shift pistons then pull it out the back. sometimes it is easier to pull the bolts out of aux case drop it down and fix the shift synchronizer also. if it grinds any between low and high usually going into low synchro is going bad. and never shift range moving in reverse.

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

no you should be able to disassemble everything on shift pistons then pull it out the back. sometimes it is easier to pull the bolts out of aux case drop it down and fix the shift synchronizer also. if it grinds any between low and high usually going into low synchro is going bad. and never shift range moving in reverse.

The only time it grinds going into low or direct from high is if im still moving too fast. Say im turning in somewhere and im coasting in ill switch to get ready to be in direct 1 to take off, you can hear a small grind until it slows down enough to go in. So after that i have started waiting until im turning in to switch the range and no more grinding. Im sure you are on to something it probably is on its way out too. Ive never tried to shift into low low unless im stopped. I believe that to be the correct way. 

Lets say i go that route. What do i need to know. Is there a way to bolt the gears from falling out of time or pin the intermidiate shafts somehow?

The shift piston may be ok. If its above say 50* you can jump in it and take off no issues. What else would cause this?Thanks 

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25 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

The only time it grinds going into low or direct from high is if im still moving too fast. Say im turning in somewhere and im coasting in ill switch to get ready to be in direct 1 to take off, you can hear a small grind until it slows down enough to go in. So after that i have started waiting until im turning in to switch the range and no more grinding. Im sure you are on to something it probably is on its way out too. Ive never tried to shift into low low unless im stopped. I believe that to be the correct way. 

Lets say i go that route. What do i need to know. Is there a way to bolt the gears from falling out of time or pin the intermidiate shafts somehow?

The shift piston may be ok. If its above say 50* you can jump in it and take off no issues. What else would cause this?Thanks 

you have already cleaned and replaced air regulator on trans the way it sounds. the regulator can give a little bit of problems. the gears will stay together when disassembling just going back together there are marks on the 2 side gears that need to point a specific way so middle drive gear doesn't bind. it is not as hard as it sounds to fix them. you should be able to down shift will moving just not into low low reduction. the medium/ high 5 to 6 split is synchroed so it should shift smoothly with no grinding. this is a dump truck right? what happens guys will stat reverse in low range and jump it to high when backing a long ways. the synchro is turning backwards in reverse and wears the wrong way after repeated prolonged reverse shifting. you see this problem a lot in municipal owned dumps. they will get so bad synchro will hold and work in forward gears but worn teeth will ramp it out when in reverse.

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15 minutes ago, dale560 said:

you have already cleaned and replaced air regulator on trans the way it sounds. the regulator can give a little bit of problems. the gears will stay together when disassembling just going back together there are marks on the 2 side gears that need to point a specific way so middle drive gear doesn't bind. it is not as hard as it sounds to fix them. you should be able to down shift will moving just not into low low reduction. the medium/ high 5 to 6 split is synchroed so it should shift smoothly with no grinding. this is a dump truck right? what happens guys will stat reverse in low range and jump it to high when backing a long ways. the synchro is turning backwards in reverse and wears the wrong way after repeated prolonged reverse shifting. you see this problem a lot in municipal owned dumps. they will get so bad synchro will hold and work in forward gears but worn teeth will ramp it out when in reverse.

Yes i only replaced the regulator because it was leaking externally. That was a year ago and its been great since. When i bought this dump truck it had a million air leaks, and i tried to tidy that up to a managable amount. This transmission isnt perfect it rattles just a tad in 4th and 5th under a hard pull especially in low you can feel it in the shifter handle, and slightly hear it too. But it doesnt try to do anything it shouldnt and im hoping it stays that way. I probably put 1000 miles a year on it, mostly hauling grain. Its the one i picked up last year. So far it seems like a decent dump truck if that even exsists. I know thats an oxy moron aint it. Lol

20231019_140347.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

Yes i only replaced the regulator because it was leaking externally. That was a year ago and its been great since. When i bought this dump truck it had a million air leaks, and i tried to tidy that up to a managable amount. This transmission isnt perfect it rattles just a tad in 4th and 5th under a hard pull especially in low you can feel it in the shifter handle, and slightly hear it too. But it doesnt try to do anything it shouldnt and im hoping it stays that way. I probably put 1000 miles a year on it, mostly hauling grain. Its the one i picked up last year. So far it seems like a decent dump truck if that even exsists. I know thats an oxy moron aint it. Lol

20231019_140347.jpg

good looking truck. i would just pull the air cylinder covers off and clean up what you can see if it helps

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Just now, dale560 said:

good looking truck. i would just pull the air cylinder covers off and clean up what you can see if it helps

Will do. I figured it would be worth a try. Like i said once it warms up and shifts it will work every time perfect. 

Thanks Dale i appreciate the help 

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50 minutes ago, rbeckman said:

If it is like a 95 series there is a control valve on the upper left side that only let it shift between low and direct range when the gearshift lever is in neutral. My brother tad that problem with his RTO9513.

yes it is almost the same.  the difference in those trans is case size and rear gearing ratios. 6 is for 600ftlb torque, 9 is 900 ft lb torque rating

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11 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

Yes i only replaced the regulator because it was leaking externally. That was a year ago and its been great since. When i bought this dump truck it had a million air leaks, and i tried to tidy that up to a managable amount. This transmission isnt perfect it rattles just a tad in 4th and 5th under a hard pull especially in low you can feel it in the shifter handle, and slightly hear it too. But it doesnt try to do anything it shouldnt and im hoping it stays that way. I probably put 1000 miles a year on it, mostly hauling grain. Its the one i picked up last year. So far it seems like a decent dump truck if that even exsists. I know thats an oxy moron aint it. Lol

20231019_140347.jpg

That’s a good looking unit.  Those trucks will run a long time.  

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24 minutes ago, hobbyfarm said:

Dale always amazed at your self tought knowledge.  

Take stuff apart enough and eventually you figure out a few things. Lucky enough to learn a few things from Dad along the way.My heavy truck education comes from Mennonite potato farmer we farmed next to 30 miles away. He had every type of machine you could imagine and his brother, brother in laws farmed next to him so there was 15 trucks we did service on. My Mennonite guy found us when dads buddy told him we could work on and were knowledgeable about 5.7 Oldsmobile diesel. Putting a injection pump on that car gained me a lot of education later. My dad was from that town and we farmed there so pretty soon we had a 35 or 40 mile area where we would work on farm tractors, trucks or whatever. Then dads cousin started selling 2 ton farm trucks after he sold his ranch and moved to town in 93. Every truck he bought needed brake or transmission work. So it got that I knew every type of 4 or 5 speed used in those old IH, Chevy and Ford trucks. Used to put bearings and synchros in those Clark and new process transmissions once a week.He then got into heavy duty semi trucks so I had to figure out big transmission stuff. I don’t do much of that anymore but I then got into fixing engines for my concrete buddy on his trucks. All through this time we farmed and fixed JD and IH tractors on the side. Still do a bit but family gets in the way of and ambition.

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