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Why was IH construction eq unpopular ?


tommyw-5088

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TD24 had a lot of teething problems and technical improvements, guys of the day said you almost couldn't keep up with the service bulletins, TD30 was released too soon and was a disaster, beautiful looking machine but almost non existent today. That said Cat did they best job of identifying others short comings and not over powering their product and support. The oil patch here would only spec Cat, numerous stories RCM delivered a TD25 to a well site and they ordered it removed, Cat only, they took it back to the shop and re painted it and brought it back and they commented on what a great machine it was, another was a company that had to move loaded trucks around curves in muck and grade, their Cat equipment was just ripping it up worse with no power to one track, the owner told an employee to go get the TD25 and he said that old junk and had never seen it run and it accomplished the job quite nicely, this is the cherry TD18 @Pukeko purchased that was the welders Cat from a pipeline outfit that we removed the patio deck

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I have ran Loraine cranes with Detroits.They were okay.I ran Terex loaders with 12v92 twin turbo charged Detroits it was awesome,,powerful quiet and they whistled on day long.I ran same tonnage,same exact R35 Euclid haulage trucks. Auto of course, some had 12v92 no turbo,others had a Cummins, can't remember what engine but those Detroits would run circles around those Cummins. Just my experience that's all.

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Out of curiosity did anything besides the dozers survive the Dresser purchase in ~1983? I don't recall seeing anything else IH branded "Dresser" except for dozers.

My understanding was Dresser dropped everything but the dozers like so many hot potatoes the moment the ink dried on the contract.

Graders, Gallon/Dresser roller/compactors seen a lot of loaders, but I couldn’t tell you what years. 

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There were quite a few ih construction dealers before the sale in the early 80s. The economy tanked round here in the early 80s and lots of construction dealers of all types shut down.

Cat survived across the state by consolidation and strategically shutting down many dealers. All the CAT dealers round here are 'Riggs' and have been for a long time. Round here CAT changed to big multi location dealers long before ag did.

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4 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Out of curiosity did anything besides the dozers survive the Dresser purchase in ~1983? I don't recall seeing anything else IH branded "Dresser" except for dozers.

My understanding was Dresser dropped everything but the dozers like so many hot potatoes the moment the ink dried on the contract.

Payloaders.

Gravel pit that my Dad worked at was a small testing facility for IH, and then Dresser, later on.   I remember there was a monster payloader out there on site (I'm thinking 580) but that was 30 years ago now.

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14 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

There is a lot of nostalgia when it comes to 2 cycle Detroit Diesels. I don’t know anybody who had extensive experience with them who has good memories. I knew a lot of truck drivers who hated them. Hate may not be a strong enough word. 

The 1st long haul job I had was bed buging with a Transtar 4070B  with a 8V92 driven through a 13 speed 

It wasn't bad,  the 4070B was the problem had it been a 4300 it would of been a sweet ride for the time 

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31 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

It's that way all around the country 

Beig a CAT dealer is even more holy than selling mother Deere 

Back in the 1930/40s JD and Cat had a working relationship and combo JD/Cat dealers weren’t uncommon in the west and Pacific Northwest.  Maybe that’s were JD eventually got mega chain dealer idea from. 

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  Based on what I have seen in the past around here I never knew that Cat had anything other than very few dealers with big territories.  As to mega chains Case was doing that before it was a gleam in anybody else's eye.  The rise of the mega Case dealer here started around 1970 and has kept going through today where it just recently gobbled up a 3 location ag dealer near Buffalo, NY.  

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What kind of equipment you see in your area and good or bad experiences with one brand or the other is all about the dealer. A lot of people bring up the AG stuff and that's not relevant with IH, industrial side was always separate and sold at least 2 years before the AG. To my knowledge the only way you could get parts, say for industrial from an AG dealer or vissa/versa was if you had the number and it was used in an application for the products of the dealer you were at, IH never crossed that line. Deere does cross that line somewhat, more on the AG side and I've also found them to be less expensive then their Industrial counterparts. But this is all in my area and may be different elsewhere. It's my opinion, a good dealer will keep you brand loyal regardless of the shortcomings of the equipment they sell. 

  It's funny to look back at the days before the big delivery companies, my dealer would call the IH factory in Chicago for a part, they would put it in a taxi to the airport and the dealer would have it the next day. Sorry, kinda long winded on this one and all over the place.            

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27 minutes ago, pede said:

It's funny to look back at the days before the big delivery companies, my dealer would call the IH factory in Chicago for a part, they would put it in a taxi to the airport and the dealer would have it the next da

It used to be that you could get parts next day or for sure 2 day delivery when Greyhound bus went to nearly every town. They might have been in the passenger business but they sure hauled a lot of freight to 

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7 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

It used to be that you could get parts next day or for sure 2 day delivery when Greyhound bus went to nearly every town. They might have been in the passenger business but they sure hauled a lot of freight to 

Have picked up parts at the bus station before. CAT out of indy would do that if Morton IL didn't have it. There was a will call option too.

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Wish I saved a production display years ago, issued by IH so some bias but it had a TD25C vs a D8H or K brushing a virgin quarter, the production was quite a bit more with the IH, to be fair the TD25 was around D8 1/2 size so the 2 models didn't quite line up but the productivity was substantial. 

I've been trying to find an old video of a TD25 brushing in heavy forest that was quite impressive but coming up bust 🥺

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1 hour ago, Lazy WP said:

It used to be that you could get parts next day or for sure 2 day delivery when Greyhound bus went to nearly every town. They might have been in the passenger business but they sure hauled a lot of freight to 

  The years that I was old enough to understand IH parts came out of Baltimore, MD and was 2 days normal delivery into the dealer.  JD had their warehouse in Syracuse, NY and all JD dealers around here would pickup there every day the terminal was open.  JD dealers even would let customers drive to Syracuse so they could have parts within an hour or two depending on distance.  

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I forgot about Busses. Most of our IH parts came from Chicago, years later when Komatsu came around they built a big warehouse in Tn. Our JD 760A parts came from Milan, IL, 20 miles from us and did a lot of will calls out of there, usually 2-3hrs.     

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3 hours ago, 766 Man said:

   As to mega chains Case was doing that before it was a gleam in anybody else's eye.  The rise of the mega Case dealer here started around 1970 and has kept going through today where it just recently gobbled up a 3 location ag dealer near Buffalo, NY.  

 But did that initially come down from headquarters as a mandate like it did from JD?  Our Massey dealer had two locations.  They never expanded because well they are Massey.  Our JD dealer at the time also sold Cat but it was just crawlers to farmers.  

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5 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

 But did that initially come down from headquarters as a mandate like it did from JD?  Our Massey dealer had two locations.  They never expanded because well they are Massey.  Our JD dealer at the time also sold Cat but it was just crawlers to farmers.  

  Case corporate cancelled or let other Case dealers know they would not be renewed in favor of this dealer.  This dealer also did some arm twisting as to other dealers being closed.  The bigger it got the easier it was just to cancel what was left.  The industrial end of the mega dealer was doing fantastic during the 1980's so that added more pressure.  The mom and pop Case dealers in poor sales territories were gone by 1990.  Contrast this with JD who had mostly mom and pop one or two location dealers at the same time.  Up until the merger most IH dealers here were one or two locations.  

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16 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

 But did that initially come down from headquarters as a mandate like it did from JD?  Our Massey dealer had two locations.  They never expanded because well they are Massey.  Our JD dealer at the time also sold Cat but it was just crawlers to farmers.  

 Living close to and knowing more then a few that work at the crystal palace I here a lot of rumors. Deere liked the mega dealer when it started but has since thought it maybe wasn't the best idea as some of those dealers have way to much influence, let's call it the Walmart syndrome. I heard they denied one out west that would have made a super mega dealer.      

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1 minute ago, pede said:

 Living close to and knowing more then a few that work at the crystal palace I here a lot of rumors. Deere liked the mega dealer when it started but has since thought it maybe wasn't the best idea as some of those dealers have way to much enough influence, let's call it the Walmart syndrome. I heard they denied one out west that would have made a super mega dealer.      

The owner of one of the JD dealers we did business with was married to the niece of one of  vice presidents in JD during the 80s and 90s.  So he had many good outings with the top brass of JD and on one of those trips he was told this was coming down the pipeline.  This would have been about early or mid 90s.  It started out as encouragement but lately it’s merge or else.  

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36 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

It started out as encouragement but lately it’s merge or else.

They closed a Deere ag dealer here a few years ago. They told him to sell it and he wouldn’t. I don’t know how he thought he was going to win, but they finally canceled his contract. I don’t know if it happens with other colors, probably, but green is the only one I have seen tell a dealer to sell out or we’ll close the store and actually follow through. That said, he wasn’t selling a lot of new equipment. The Case IH I deal with is a single location store. 

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9 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

They closed a Deere ag dealer here a few years ago. They told him to sell it and he wouldn’t. I don’t know how he thought he was going to win, but they finally canceled his contract. I don’t know if it happens with other colors, probably, but green is the only one I have seen tell a dealer to sell out or we’ll close the store and actually follow through. That said, he wasn’t selling a lot of new equipment. The Case IH I deal with is a single location store. 

We lost our last single store CIH dealer maybe 8 years ago and it was forced.  Rumor is the mega dealer had a hand in it because their service is just awful and they were losing sales and basically this single store was a thorn in their side.  I don’t need to tell you who it is because all you have to do is google CIH dealer in Montana.  But the closed store reopened taking on NH and now you see NH equipment creeping into the country side with guys that formally ran red. Guess it doesn’t matter because the money all goes back to the same place 

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2 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

We lost our last single store CIH dealer maybe 8 years ago and it was forced.  Rumor is the mega dealer had a hand in it because their service is just awful and they were losing sales and basically this single store was a thorn in their side.  I don’t need to tell you who it is because all you have to do is google CIH dealer in Montana.  But the  reopened taking on NH and now you see NH equipment creeping into the country side.  

I often wonder how long the single store will be around. It’s a very good dealer. There was another single store Case IH/New Holland dealer, but recently sold after the owner committed suicide. I have wondered if the dealership was a contributing factor in his death, but I did not know him personally. I imagine in todays environment, owning a single store is not for the faint hearted. 

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5 hours ago, hardtail said:

Wish I saved a production display years ago, issued by IH so some bias but it had a TD25C vs a D8H or K brushing a virgin quarter, the production was quite a bit more with the IH, to be fair the TD25 was around D8 1/2 size so the 2 models didn't quite line up but the productivity was substantial. 

I've been trying to find an old video of a TD25 brushing in heavy forest that was quite impressive but coming up bust 🥺

The biggest advantages between the TD25 over the D8s for what we used them for was the 2-speed and the TD25 was much faster up and down the field as well as pulled faster with a load. The two speed was also much nicer for making corners under load and in wet conditions. You could feather the D8 steering in the handles some but it wasn't near as good. The company I worked for acquired a D9 with a tile plow attached when they bought out another company. We put a winch on it and thought it would make an outstanding "pull crawler" to help pull the tile plows around but with its weight and narrow tracks it didn't suit what we used it for one bit in muddy conditions. We put wider track pads on the TD25 my first winter there. Two guys, a pry bar to hold the nuts and a 1" impact. Lifting them beefed up pads will sure make a man out of you if it doesn't wreck your back. 

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