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175 WET STARTER


TWV

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I have a 1960 175 that I use to drag logs out of the woods for firewood every fall. This spring I had the fuel injector pump

rebuilt. The machine started and runs fine but  the starter quit and had oil coming out of it. I drained the flywheel sump and

2 gallons of hydraulic oil came out. I let the machine sit all summer since the woods have been wet  and I am on the edge of a

swamp. The starter was rebuilt.

I recently pulled the plug on the flywheel sump and 2 gallons of more hydraulic oil came out. The machine hasn't run. So I

removed the tourque converter pump and replaced the orings. I added more oil to the rear frame. The next day I removed the

plug expecting it would be dry but half a gallon came out. Hydraulic oil is leaking through the system somewhere. Could it be the

hydraulic pump?  Maybe something more easy than that? The starter was removed and cleaned.

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Nomorejohndeere:

The plug is solid.

My thoughts right now are there is a seal or oring that lets oil pass from the rear frame to the

plug cavity.  This is from the machine sitting and has not been started over the summer. I think if I

keep adding oil to the rear frame it will come out the plug.

The starter has no seal. The converter is dry with a drain line 1/4 up the side to deliver oil back to the

main frame when running. The vent line is clear so that works. How it works with how much oil in/ around the

tourqe converter is not clear to me by a long shot.

  Sincerely,

 TWV

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Got to be something internal with the hydraulic pump letting the oil flow by, thrush washers maybe? I had a similar problem on the 20c but would only do it running, had a crack that would open up when it got hot. If memory serves me right this is the only place the two oils can mix.      

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Pede:

The oil in the flywheel sump is oil from the rear frame I believe. I called it hydraulic oil but it is not from the loader hydraulic system.

Todays analysis is that the tourqe converter housing fills up with oil at start up. The oring around the tc keeps it out of the flywheel

housing.  An outlet pipe on the side of the flywheel removes any leakage by centrifigal force to the rear frame. The oil in the tc housing

is removed also or left in the housing. It is not visible from the top cover when not running.

Leakage could be from the big oring.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

         TWV

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On powershift machines I thought there was a scavenger pump that dealt with small loses, if you have a major leak it will overcome what that pump can deal with or the scavenger pump isn't working properly and your housing fills with oil and reduces power

@farmalldr

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Sorry, misread it. On the c models I believe it's suppose to have some oil there and the starter has a seal to protect it. 

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Hello twv, Pede is right.  The starter should be sealed.  Some oil in the bell housing is normal.  During operation the ring gear throws the oil into a cup affair as part of the fitting, lower rt side of the housing.  You referred to the return hose earlier.  I don't know how much accumulation is normal during shut down.  If excess it could be the hook ring seal at back of the rotating unit.

If you are not experiencing converter heating or operation problems, it could be normal.

Dennis

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Thank you all for the diagnosis.

The starter is not sealed. I had it rebuilt 10 years ago and before and since until now had no problems.

After the motor is shut down some oil must or likely remains in the torgue converter housing. This oil level

must stay below the starter. There is room in the sump for 1-2 gallons. Everything is good here.

When I pulled the starter out I got an oil bath of extra oil in the housing/ sump. The leakage maybe from oil

left in the turbine/ impeller unit. There are seals there to contain it. I see those since pointed out.

The answer is to take the touque converter out and put new seals in. Also clear any blockage in the outlet pipe.

Rebuilding the tc is wothwhile to me to keep the old machine going. Old seals need to be replaced.

Keep you posted.

              TWV

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Rebuilding the converter isn't bad, besides the seals maybe 3 or 4 bearings and was told long ago to do this every 2 years, now if the internals are damaged.....hide your wallet. I have worked over the fins with a die grinder with good success.   

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I looking at 5 seals for the tourqe converter. Who is likely to have these. 1960 175

Thanks for any advise. The local dealer Winmill equipment has been real good but if not available

through them another supplier.

 TWV

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You can try FP Smith, Motition Industries use to have a cross for IH numbers but that was back in the book days, if you can get them off without destroying them bout any good seal/bearing store should be able to measure and get you something. There is also a good IH/Dresser/Dresta dealer in Benton Illinois that likes this old stuff. 

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