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Some things I didn't know about the atmosphere and climate


iowaboy1965

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1 hour ago, Littlefeller said:

Not much internal combustion in 1911.  Maybe another issue?????

Yes, the burning of coal... Since the start of the industrial revolution, and can be seen as the start of CO2 levels rising.

Global carbon emissions

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Not worried. Should make plants grow well though. Data from "millennia ago" is based upon core samples of ice and theories and hypotheses of what the atmospheric conditions were at that time. We weren't here to measure actual carbon dioxide levels were at the time. I like how most of these articles talk about the carbon levels in the atmosphere. That conjures up visions of the black soot in your chimney or exhaust pipe. The term is carbon dioxide. An odorless, colorless gas. None of us will be here to see who was right about carbon dioxide, so I'm not going to fret. After all, many theories that have been put forth over the past 100 years have been proven wrong.

 

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A couple ways to look at it. 
1) It’s only .04% so it doesn’t matter 

2) It’s .04% but is rising. At what point does it matter?  .06%? .09%? 1.2%?
 

It is much easier to double a very small number such as .04%. 
Maybe a better measurement would be Parts Per Million? 
There are chemicals that are harmless at a low PPM count but dangerous if increased even slightly.  The percentage may be small but the PPM count doubling or tripling has much different results. 
Also as the percentage of CO2 increases that means another gas(es) in the atmosphere must be decreasing their percentage.  Does that matter? Which one(s) decreases and why? 

The combustion process releases CO2. That’s junior high science. The world burns tons of carbon based fuels each day. That releases far more CO2 than naturally would occur.
Does it matter?

Do we know yet?

When would we know? 

Can it be reversed?
How long does that take? 
 

There are many questions to ask in a discussion about this.  It’s really difficult to get clear unbiased answers or even have the conversation at all. 

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18 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

A couple ways to look at it. 
1) It’s only .04% so it doesn’t matter 

2) It’s .04% but is rising. At what point does it matter?  .06%? .09%? 1.2%?
 

It is much easier to double a very small number such as .04%. 
Maybe a better measurement would be Parts Per Million? 
There are chemicals that are harmless at a low PPM count but dangerous if increased even slightly.  The percentage may be small but the PPM count doubling or tripling has much different results. 
Also as the percentage of CO2 increases that means another gas(es) in the atmosphere must be decreasing their percentage.  Does that matter? Which one(s) decreases and why? 

The combustion process releases CO2. That’s junior high science. The world burns tons of carbon based fuels each day. That releases far more CO2 than naturally would occur.
Does it matter?

Do we know yet?

When would we know? 

Can it be reversed?
How long does that take? 
 

There are many questions to ask in a discussion about this.  It’s really difficult to get clear unbiased answers or even have the conversation at all. 

Carbon dioxide is worrisome at 2000 parts per million, at 5000 ppm is osha exposure threshold and 30,000 parts ppm deadly. Our co2 monitor at work usually is around 540 ppm but at times spikes to 1200 for short times. 

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6 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Carbon dioxide is worrisome at 2000 parts per million, at 5000 ppm is osha exposure threshold and 30,000 parts ppm deadly. Our co2 monitor at work usually is around 540 ppm but at times spikes to 1200 for short times. 

Currently the atmosphere is slightly more than 400 PPM CO2. 
 

During the Cambrian times it looks like OSHA would be closing the place down. 
 

Do we trust CO2 level data from allegedly millions of years ago but not more recent data?  Humans didn’t live in those conditions so even if accurate are irrelevant to today. 

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If you guys are brewing your own home beer or have a greenhouse raising special plants please put a co2 alarm in place. Every year people die from simple accidents. Co2 is heavier than air so fills low area first. McDonald’s have had deaths where their lines have been punctured and leak into bathrooms killing people. They use co2 for soft drinks and certain things like window opening. A couple years ago delivery driver on New York area died filling a night clubs tanks outside in a stairwell. This happens more than you think so if around Co2 monitor it.

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19 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

Currently the atmosphere is slightly more than 400 PPM CO2. 
 

During the Cambrian times it looks like OSHA would be closing the place down. 
 

Do we trust CO2 level data from allegedly millions of years ago but not more recent data?  Humans didn’t live in those conditions so even if accurate are irrelevant to today. 

There were never not humans on earth so think about that a little.

 

Fossil fuels presumably (although not certainly) came from plants and animals that also - presumably - extracted all that carbon from the atmosphere soooooo what was the atmosphere like before all that carbon was removed??

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5 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

There were never not humans on earth so think about that a little.

 

Fossil fuels presumably (although not certainly) came from plants and animals that also - presumably - extracted all that carbon from the atmosphere soooooo what was the atmosphere like before all that carbon was removed??

I did say  allegedly  from that time period. 
Depending upon your beliefs there may have been 5 days without humans. The earth may not be billions of years old. That muddies up the conversations too. 
There are also those believe that fossil fuels aren’t actually old and are continually produced. 
There is just so much we don’t know. 

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13 minutes ago, F-301066460puller said:

Co2 is a by product of animals being alive. No co2 means no animal is alive. Chew on that. 

No one is saying “No CO2”

Is there an optimal amount of CO2?  Too little is obviously bad. Too much can kill animals.
How much is too much? How much of the increase is from human activity?  Can humans reduce the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere?  Do we need to reduce it? 
Those are the questions being asked. Some have already made up their minds on either end of the spectrum. 

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