656 clutch or ta?

[mader656]

Low side has been out. For 500 or so hours. Today i was using the 656 it was free wheeling on the high side. Or so it felt. Then i was driving  up a slight hill and lost all ability to drive. I was able to adjust the clutch linkage enough to crawl up on the trailer. Hoping to get by with just a clutch? Trying to budget this along.

[snoshoe]

Depends which clutch is out. Either one will stop motion with bad ta.

[mader656]

22 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Depends which clutch is out. Either one will stop motion with bad ta.

Test other than tearing down?

[snoshoe]

Bad ta makes testing difficult.  Looking in inspection covers would give a good guess. Otherwise bell housing split is required for either.

[mader656]

Looks like smart money is do both while im in there. 

My question is does a ta come with the clutch or does that need purchased separately?

[snoshoe]

Clutch ta and ta clutch are separate items but yes I would fix it while at it. Option is if main clutch is the problem and ta is totally inoperative. Is to replace main clutch and remove link between the two. You then have a straight 5 speed.

[mader656]

15 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Clutch ta and ta clutch are separate items but yes I would fix it while at it. Option is if main clutch is the problem and ta is totally inoperative. Is to replace main clutch and remove link between the two. You then have a straight 5 speed.

Thats the thing i suspect the ta clutch is out... really could use the ta moving snow... better now than later when its cold.

[mader656]

I guess i could split at the main clutch before i decide to go farther...should be able to know more at that point.

[HydroTek]

Pull the small top cover and take a look -- that is the ta high clutch

Hy-Capacity used to have a TA kit for reasonable
There are some install tool sleeves for the oil seal that are necessary if not in the kit

[Jacka]

I would ALWAYS prefer a TA over a straight 5 spd.Seems to me if one went from having a TA and then went to not you really wish you did. I know if it was me I would be reaching for the handle all the time without thinking and it wouldn't be there.

[Red Flyer]

Is this the same tractor you did the engine overhaul on?

[Matt Kirsch]

10 hours ago, mader656 said:

I guess i could split at the main clutch before i decide to go farther...should be able to know more at that point.

You can replace the main clutch and the TA clutch if necessary with a bell housing split. 

As long as that TA clutch is holding the tractor will drive in direct and you can use it as a 5-speed. Since the TA has been out for 500 hours you're used to NOT using it, and you won't miss not having it. If replacing the entire TA is not in the budget, let the next guy deal with it.

[Diesel Doctor]

If this is the main clutch, you split it there and there should not be much left if it won't pull itself. 

If the main clutch don't look to bad, then you get to do the TA.

Process of elimination.

Peeking in the TA clutch inspection cover may tell you how far you need to go.

You will be looking at a miniature pressure plate clutch with another throw out bearing.

You can see the clutch plate squeezed between the pressure plate and flywheel.

A new one is roughly 3/16" thick with the metal in the middle and the clutch material on both sides.

I have seen all clutch material gone or almost gone.

That means a TA overhaul and 2nd split.

I used to get all pieces from the parts man but that was an eternity ago.

Things have changed, just a bit. 

[mader656]

1 hour ago, Red Flyer said:

Is this the same tractor you did the engine overhaul on?

Yeah about 20 hours later....should have out of framed...

[mader656]

3 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

You can replace the main clutch and the TA clutch if necessary with a bell housing split. 

G

Good to know. Taking all the cab and loader mounts looks like a huge ordeal.

 

[hagan]

One spring when working ground with the 560 it got to where when you pushed the TA foreward it did not seem to go any faster. Had dealer come out and sure enough the direct drive clutch on the TA had went out. We ran it in TA for a few weeks until we had time to turn loose of it and get it fixed.  One amazing thing with this ol 560 it is sn40755 and for years it was tractor #2 and it still has the ORIGINAL TA AND IT STILL WORKS. you just can not try to start out in 5th with the TA back when it is really cold. Once warmed up a person can start out with TA back and it works perfect. Must have been 100% correct when put in at the factory

[mader656]

Pulled the inpsection cover for the ta clutch...its definitely the ta clutch slipping

12 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

If this is the main clutch, you split it there and there should not be much left if it won't pull itself. 

If the main clutch don't look to bad, then you get to do the TA.

Process of elimination.

Peeking in the TA clutch inspection cover may tell you how far you need to go.

You will be looking at a miniature pressure plate clutch with another throw out bearing.

You can see the clutch plate squeezed between the pressure plate and flywheel.

A new one is roughly 3/16" thick with the metal in the middle and the clutch material on both sides.

I have seen all clutch material gone or almost gone.

That means a TA overhaul and 2nd split.

I used to get all pieces from the parts man but that was an eternity ago.

Things have changed, just a bit. 

Friction material is darn near 3/16 on both sides of the metal, seems like the pressure plate isnt pushing because i can move it apart with my fingers and easily spread them with my fingers... 

[HydroTek]

Been hot from slipping and cooked the springs

[mader656]

Makes sense... might as well do both clutches.  

[Farmall Doctor]

20 hours ago, hagan said:

One spring when working ground with the 560 it got to where when you pushed the TA foreward it did not seem to go any faster. Had dealer come out and sure enough the direct drive clutch on the TA had went out. We ran it in TA for a few weeks until we had time to turn loose of it and get it fixed.  One amazing thing with this ol 560 it is sn40755 and for years it was tractor #2 and it still has the ORIGINAL TA AND IT STILL WORKS. you just can not try to start out in 5th with the TA back when it is really cold. Once warmed up a person can start out with TA back and it works perfect. Must have been 100% correct when put in at the factory

That’s not uncommon. The mechanical TA units were very well built. 

[Diesel Doctor]

13 hours ago, mader656 said:

Pulled the inpsection cover for the ta clutch...its definitely the ta clutch slipping

Friction material is darn near 3/16 on both sides of the metal, seems like the pressure plate isnt pushing because i can move it apart with my fingers and easily spread them with my fingers... 

Is the TA lever back?

That opens the clutch and will let you move the clutch plate.

When the TA lever is forward, the clutch should be closed and the clutch plate is mated to the pressure plate.

Or should be?

[Matt Kirsch]

TA lever back, the cams adjusted improperly, or even the TA throwout or rockshaft seized/failed.

The two cams should not be touching if your foot is off the pedal and the TA lever is ahead.

On Dad's W-400 it was sold with the TA "out." Turns out it was in TA because someone had adjusted the TA clutch linkage so tight that it was slipping the clutch, and had burned up all the clutch lining. New TA clutch disk and it's been perfect ever since.

[mader656]

6 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

Is the TA lever back?

That opens the clutch and will let you move the clutch plate.

When the TA lever is forward, the clutch should be closed and the clutch plate is mated to the pressure plate.

Or should be?

Forward or back...i can see them spread but even unhooked they dont squeeze. As mentioned above i think the springs are shot.

[Jess_656D]

Mader656, just got done with mine. Ta lever pulled back releases the ta clutch, the sun gear planetary housing will then try and spin in the opposite direction which the ramp rollers/sprag stopes it. through sun gears is where get the reduction. TA lever forward the whole planetary housing spins in high or direct. There is a nut which is kind of a poor design that loosen up and eventually take out the spline on the TA clutch flywheel. The suckey part is one needs to take it all apart to figure out what you need. IF i where to do another one again I would seriously think about buying a reman TA, the reason is the sun gear needle bearings and some of the shafting not cheap. Main clutch and TA parts north of 2K.

For me, nice size tractor easy to work on no tractor payments!!! 

[mader656]

My ta clutch w

1 hour ago, Jess_656D said:

Mader656, just got done with mine. Ta lever pulled back releases the ta clutch, the sun gear planetary housing will then try and spin in the opposite direction which the ramp rollers/sprag stopes it. through sun gears is where get the reduction. TA lever forward the whole planetary housing spins in high or direct. There is a nut which is kind of a poor design that loosen up and eventually take out the spline on the TA clutch flywheel. The suckey part is one needs to take it all apart to figure out what you need. IF i where to do another one again I would seriously think about buying a reman TA, the reason is the sun gear needle bearings and some of the shafting not cheap. Main clutch and TA parts north of 2K.

For me, nice size tractor easy to work on no tractor payments!!! 

My ta clutch springs were shot disk looked good springs shot.

But yes very handy size tractors.