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GM Strike


766 Man

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50 minutes ago, lotsaIHCs said:

I don't have a dog in the fight, don't know anyone who does, other than anyone who might be in the market for a vehicle in the near future, and don't know the specifics of contract proposals. If news sources are correct, the last proposal I heard from GM was to include 40% pay increases over the course of the next 5 years on top of regular cost of living raises. That doesn't sound like anything to sneeze at! But then, as I said I have no knowledge of any specifics about the proposal other than what has been reported.

I’ve read reports from several different sources that the UAW has asked for 40%+ pay increases and at least GM z has offered 20% guaranteed raises. 

41 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

What percentage of a cost of a vehicle is labor?  While I don’t doubt cost rising by 30% in 5 year, it won’t all be due to the increase in labor costs.  
 

Now I was raised and fed on union wages that my dad earned, so while I don’t agree with unions, I also can’t bash them too badly.

People need to realize that the US is hurting in a big way with respect to blue collar workers.  Especially skilled workers.  The boomers are almost all retired now and the generation taking its place is not nearly big enough to fill those jobs, plus most of them want a white collar or service industry job.  We need to listen to Mike Rowe a little more.

I’ve seen 5-10% of the vehicle cost is labor. 
IDK if I’d include assembly line workers in the “skilled labor” pool. 

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14 minutes ago, dads706 said:

$100K for a new vehicle....... no problem, since todays cars/trucks will easy go 200K miles the finance company will just start financing vehicles for 10 years.

How else are those 20 year old's going to be able to buy their dually diesels and put $5000 worth of tires and wheels on them. 

I bought the wife a brand new Chevy HighCountry in 2017. it cost more than the first 3 houses we owned combined.

  Maybe in the South where there is no salt to eat away at a vehicle.  These finance companies will insist on extended warranties which will add to the cost of a new vehicle.  So throw another 20,000 dollars onto the 100,000 dollar vehicle.  Interest rates are on the rise and I hear rates of in excess of 10 percent annual.  Most people have to finance the majority of their purchase.  So with 25 percent down that leaves 75,000 dollars or more to finance.  So another 25,000, 35,000 or more dollars in interest.  So now with all the fees and interest that 100,000 dollar truck has bloated into 150,000 dollars or more of cost.  With corn dipping below 5.00 dollars per bushels how many new duallies will be pulling into the local consignment sale in 2025 and beyond to impress the neighbors?  

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2 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/793878829094620?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

Comparison of how we are doing compared to folks living in the great depression. 

  If I could live comfortably I would choose to live then versus now.  Yes, there are more conveniences now but far more uncertainty as well.  

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2 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  Speculation is that when it gets done the price of vehicles will increase by 30 percent over the next 3 to 5 years.  I can't afford a new pickup truck now and the used inventory is getting tighter and tighter.  75,000 dollar pickup will close to 100,000 dollars if it comes true.  

At 58 years old I've never owned a new pickup. I doubt I ever will. I'm ok with that. Would I like to have one? Sure. But I can't justify the expense. We have owned 4 new family vehicles since I married my wife (30 ish years ago). About due for another but it may be a lot more stressful this time. 

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Just now, 766 Man said:

  If I could live comfortably I would choose to live then versus now.  Yes, there are more conveniences now but far more uncertainty as well.  

According to the video you would be making more money then versus now too. Check it out.

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1 minute ago, iowaboy1965 said:

At 58 years old I've never owned a new pickup. I doubt I ever will. I'm ok with that. Would I like to have one? Sure. But I can't justify the expense. We have owned 4 new family vehicles since I married my wife (30 ish years ago). About due for another but it may be a lot more stressful this time. 

  I need a new (to me) PU but the used market has been all but stripped bare.  I never bought a factory new PU and always found excellent value on the used market using a little patience.  It's not going to happen this time I hate to say.

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1 hour ago, F-301066460puller said:

He was free to tell him no.

Not if he wanted to feed his own family in the 30s and 40s. Awful easy to tell another what they should do. Especially looking back almost a 100 years. Things were a whole lot different then. 

Grandpa used to tell of a guy who suggested the factory lay off some guys so the rest would have more work. They did, the guy who suggested it got laid off. 

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2 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  I need a new (to me) PU but the used market has been all but stripped bare.  I never bought a factory new PU and always found excellent value on the used market using a little patience.  It's not going to happen this time I hate to say.

It's gotten a lot harder thats for sure. My current pickup is 24 years old and needs a few things. But it serves my needs for now. I'm not sure what I would even look for or want going much newer.

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1 hour ago, lotsaIHCs said:

I used to work I  a union shop (Teamsters). When we couldn't come to agreement on a contract, the union rep warned us that our strike benefits would be about $50/week. This was in about 1995 or so. No one could live on that so we ended up taking the contract. When that contract ended, the union was voted out. Everyone's Pay increased and retirement plan improved. 

Typical story in WA from my construction friends

Unions here [good or bad whatever] cannot get sign ups.  They run ads online and radio constantly.  Friends in trades say they make same or bettwr and dont need to be beholden to some 100k a year guy in a Lincoln

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24 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

I’ve read reports from several different sources that the UAW has asked for 40%+ pay increases and at least GM z has offered 20% guaranteed raises. 

I’ve seen 5-10% of the vehicle cost is labor. 
IDK if I’d include assembly line workers in the “skilled labor” pool. 

It was a general point about the state of US demographics.  All blue collar jobs are going to be hard to fill in the coming years, skilled labor even more so.

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Piss be upon the unions. Nobody deserves $35 per hour to put bolts in bumpers. The mechanics that have to keep those autos running only make half of that. 

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at this point I gota fix the 1978 F250 [lotsa big holes and rotted flat bed]

or the 1997 jeep [ frame is fixed ,, break line repair and gas tank guard replace and back shocks]

gona be snowing up here soon :rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

It was a general point about the state of US demographics.  All blue collar jobs are going to be hard to fill in the coming years, skilled labor even more so.

Definitely so. That only leaves a few options- more efficiency, automation, off-shoring or new immigrants. 
Many white collar jobs will be difficult to fill as well. 

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6 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Piss be upon the unions. Nobody deserves $35 per hour to put bolts in bumpers. The mechanics that have to keep those autos running only make half of that. 

  Not so fast.  I get where you are coming from but to live near their employment workers pay a lot more in living costs than people in the country.  Homes went to 100,000 dollars or more in cost in the city by decades than those in the country.  At the same time improving road infrastructure meant you could buy a loaf of bread  for 50 cents per loaf versus 1.10 dollars per loaf a couple blocks over from the factory after work.  35 dollars per hour would be excellent wages around me but would not go nearly as far in Rochester, NY.  

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7 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

Definitely so. That only leaves a few options- more efficiency, automation, off-shoring or new immigrants. 
Many white collar jobs will be difficult to fill as well. 

  Just heard this morning on the radio news that some expect artificial intelligence to fill perhaps 80 percent of that demand.  So lets pump the brakes on more immigrants and I would suspect around me a number of work age adults could use a job.  They get by because they get supported by a spouse or other family member but certainly a paycheck would be greatly appreciated.  

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I have no dog in this fight since I'm not buying a new vehicle anytime soon. Probably ever. 

The last time I bought a new vehicle my now ex wife promptly left me in it!

However in my younger days I worked on both sides of the union line. Sometimes a union is needed. 

Remember this. Unions and companies are the same. They both represent people who want to make as much money as they can! They just represent different people.

100 years ago unions helped change this country for the better. Now it seems it's just money. I'm not impressed anymore.

IMHO YMMV

Thx-Ace 

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2 hours ago, F-301066460puller said:

In today's world the only one benefiting from unions is the union. Not the workers. They had their need 100 yrs ago but the time has passed. Teachers unions are a good example. My dad was a rural mail carrier for over 40 years as well as farming. He told they union to shove it as they did nothing for him.

I agree 100% with this view. As a welder for the last 25 years I have never worked under a union, although I have had multiple opportunities. Pretty sure I would be no further ahead. In today’s labor market, if you are good at your job you will have no problem getting paid well. 

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9 minutes ago, midnightman said:

I agree 100% with this view. As a welder for the last 25 years I have never worked under a union, although I have had multiple opportunities. Pretty sure I would be no further ahead. In today’s labor market, if you are good at your job you will have no problem getting paid well. 

Yup, union support helps keep the mediocre worker employed. If you do good at your job and make yourself indispensable to your employer you don't need a union. Who knows someday you could even be self employed.

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The whole business world works better for the working man when the union and business have about equal power. Neither side has a monopoly on stupid.  

I suspect we have people that need to be hungrier before they are ready for a working job. Which means there are jobs for emigrants in this country. We just don't need the never sweats in government jobs. 

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So….. I have a friend that works at a local gm plant. Good guy, great worker. I used to work with him at the dog food plant. From what I recall of a recent conversation he doesn’t want to go on strike, the strike pay sucks. His big thing was the media wasn’t painting the whole picture (surprise surprise). They 30% pay raise is spread over 5 years not 3 to 5 and they have gone 5 years (or more?) without a raise so it’s more like 10 (again from what I recall him saying). He doesn’t expect them to get the full 30% either. Also if I remember correctly in that 30% was benefits not just actual pay (I think he said health insurance was a big part of it?) 

I have always blamed unions for a large part of the downfall of IH but I can see how the companies hold some blame as well. My friend wasn’t looking for a union job when he went there but it’s part of the game.  Personally I still don’t like unions but I don’t think the union members are all that bad. 
 

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