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Super H engine


kchmn

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I am rebuilding a Super H engine for a friend. He bought a set of sleeves and pistons that the seller swore were for a Super H, ON arrival the pistons are not what they should have been. They are flat topped pistons with a much smaller wrist pin than the originals. The seller said there is some kind of bushing available to take up the slack! I have never heard of such a goofy set up! So, I'm wondering what exactly these pistons were supposed to fit? They are 3.5 bore, but that's the only thing in common with a Super H. And where can a guy get new sleeves and pistons for a Super H these days? I have a Steiner catalog, but they don't seem to list them.  The original pistons have a hump and a crater in them, Were these called "PowerCrater" pistons back in the day?

 

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According to the IH parts book, there are two different diameters of piston pins and then different pistons.

There is a large 1 7/64" pin and a small 7/8" pin.

https://www.mycnhistore.com/us/en/caseih/na/tractors/utility/naaa87uti099legacy/farmall-tractor/engine/engine-crankshaft-related-parts-rods-pistons-cyl-sleeves-drive-pulley-flywheel-crank/cn/E082A36E-8FBF-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6/03E26496-EFBE-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6

This is the link to the parts page for the Super H.

#9 is the sleeve sets.

Interesting for the one sleeve set says this:  "Also order connecting rod Adapter and Bushing service package, 366883R92 when installing ''sleeve sets'';Cylinder Head Gasket, 362746R2 must be used with these ''Sleeve Sets''. Both sleeve sets are unavailable thru Case/IH so you will need to go through a jobber for pistons/sleeves.

It appears the spacer is an adapter from the large pin rods and shims them down to the small pin. This can be easily done. Most machine shops can probably handle this.

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agkits used to sell a look alike fire crater 3-9/16 piston and sleeves for a SH with standard SH pin size. Are you sure the pistons you have are not 3-9/16. Don't remember IH making a 3.5 piston with small pin.

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Lots of H, M thru 400 tractors got Firecrater pistons installed - it was like plugging in a "chip" today.   IIRC, didn't the 450 come with a similar dome piston as IH finally wised up?   Thats what Dad told me once.

It was common back then to install different internal engine parts to get more power.     Can you imagine trying to replace pistons in a modern Iveco or Cummins engine in the backyard?

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@Jeff-C-IL my Grandpa did lots of M&W kits in stuff back in the day, built a 450 gas for a neighbor had all the M&W stuff plus an ISKY cam, had it on the dyno @ 77HP, I guess from the stories it would put the hurts to a 706 and the few 4020's around at the time, only thing it lacked was enough fuel tank to keep up, LOL.  Kinda wish I knew where that one went, I overhauled a 706 gasser a few years ago that grandpa had overhauled, uncle did later on, then I did it had 14K plus on the hour meter!

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the piston that I managed to get out in one piece is part number, 374320-R1. My goal was to save the connecting rods, since the block was trashed. Big hole where number 2 used to be due to water freezing in the engine. I found a replacement block, and am hoping to find the right pistons. The idea of a spacer bushing doesn't feel right to me. But If there is no other option, we might have to go that route. Am I seeing it right that I'll also need a special head gasket too? Thanks for all the information on this

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58 minutes ago, kchmn said:

the piston that I managed to get out in one piece is part number, 374320-R1. My goal was to save the connecting rods, since the block was trashed. Big hole where number 2 used to be due to water freezing in the engine. I found a replacement block, and am hoping to find the right pistons. The idea of a spacer bushing doesn't feel right to me. But If there is no other option, we might have to go that route. Am I seeing it right that I'll also need a special head gasket too? Thanks for all the information on this

374320r1 is a fire crater piston.

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1 hour ago, kchmn said:

the piston that I managed to get out in one piece is part number, 374320-R1. My goal was to save the connecting rods, since the block was trashed. Big hole where number 2 used to be due to water freezing in the engine. I found a replacement block, and am hoping to find the right pistons. The idea of a spacer bushing doesn't feel right to me. But If there is no other option, we might have to go that route. Am I seeing it right that I'll also need a special head gasket too? Thanks for all the information on this

Just buy rods out of a 300 or 350 or get a new piston and sleeve kit and sell the old one. When I overhauled my super H engine it had the large wrist pins in it and the new pistons Devon got me at the time worked perfectly. 

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I can probably sell you 300 rods cheap or I have 3 different C164 piston and sleeve kits I would sell

 I collect mostly and I am addicted to it but  sometimes I will sell things to make room for new finds

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17 minutes ago, kchmn said:

I am looking for a set of 3.5" Fire Crater sleeves and pistons for this Super H. HOw much for a set?

 

Why not go for 3-9/16 fire craters for a SH. Makes it 169 CI and uses the same head gasket as a 169 or 175. If changing rods to small pin end, part of the c-169 used the same size as a SH and others same as a 175. Engine serial number breaks on the 169.

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5 minutes ago, DWV said:

Why not go for 3-9/16 fire craters for a SH. Makes it 169 CI and uses the same head gasket as a 169 or 175. If changing rods to small pin end, part of the c-169 used the same size as a SH and others same as a 175. Engine serial number breaks on the 169.

I didn't think they made standard bore Fire craters?

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On 9/13/2023 at 7:09 PM, kchmn said:

the piston that I managed to get out in one piece is part number, 374320-R1. My goal was to save the connecting rods, since the block was trashed. Big hole where number 2 used to be due to water freezing in the engine. I found a replacement block, and am hoping to find the right pistons. The idea of a spacer bushing doesn't feel right to me. But If there is no other option, we might have to go that route. Am I seeing it right that I'll also need a special head gasket too? Thanks for all the information on this

You are talking about an IH approved change with a difference of 0.234375 in the wrist pin bushings.

A very small amount.

Any good machine shop has the brass bearing stock to easily make this conversion for a lot less money.

 

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3 hours ago, hillman said:

I didn't think they made standard bore Fire craters?

kind of confusing and wished I knew more. Think the first fire craters for SH were maybe 3.5. Then a part number change for a fire crater kit the adapter bushing were listed if standard SH pin was 1.1089 to 1.092. pins that need bushings are .8747 to .8750.  Not positive about this but some books I have show no bushing needed and some do.

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After other checking I think all fire craters were increased bore. Never found a piston for letter series that started with number 374 in standard size. New one on me if poster has a standard bore one. Be nice if the pin OD was posted for engine in question. 

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On 9/15/2023 at 6:51 AM, kchmn said:

I am looking for a set of 3.5" Fire Crater sleeves and pistons for this Super H. HOw much for a set?

 

I have what you need. I think , we need to make sure , I assume you want the most power out of that engine and thats the main reason you don't want the flat tops, The Fire Craters are 3 9/16 and I believe they all were, 

23 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

You are talking about an IH approved change with a difference of 0.234375 in the wrist pin bushings.

A very small amount.

 

agreed, the  bushings are expensive from what I have been told, They make no difference in the longevity of the engine

DSCI1851.JPG

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  • 7 months later...

I need a set of pistons and sleeves for a U164 power unit. The pistons do measure 3-1/2”on mine but, water has been in the top of the engine at one point. All the bearings are dated ‘54 and all bearings are marked standard. The pistons are flat top pistons.  Does anyone have a set of NOS pistons and sleeves to work in this engine?

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24 minutes ago, JS Kight said:

I need a set of pistons and sleeves for a U164 power unit. The pistons do measure 3-1/2”on mine but, water has been in the top of the engine at one point. All the bearings are dated ‘54 and all bearings are marked standard. The pistons are flat top pistons.  Does anyone have a set of NOS pistons and sleeves to work in this engine?

I have a set 

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23 minutes ago, JS Kight said:

My phone number is (573)579-7037

 

1 hour ago, hillman said:

I have a set 

I do have the 1-7/64” wrist pin holes on my connecting rods. Is that an issue with your set?

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On 9/15/2023 at 7:24 AM, hillman said:

I didn't think they made standard bore Fire craters?

They didn't.

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Posted (edited)

New stuff is available from reliance but it is pricey. They have the piston pin adapters too. A little over$1000 for an out of frame kit with the piston pin adapters.

Edited by randy hall
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