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Electric roads in Sweden


acem

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1 hour ago, acem said:

Sweden and Norway are not typical countries in many aspects.

However I do really like the swedish bikini team!

I bet @mike newman does too!

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,,,sadly , Ace..you are mistaken.....being a person of culture and refinement....:rolleyes:.....I do not like beer.....at all  !!

......and as for team sports, cricket and rugby  are my choices.......  however if the Bikini   Team were  were clasping a great big cup of black tea, to their ample breasts.

...I would be impressed...but, no doubt  still   dispossessed.....sigh

...but thankyou for bringing this to my notice, Ace   .....:)

Mike

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What really impressed me, on my first time  ever in San Francisco Ca  in 1964, was the electric bus and cable car system. Perfect application of electric cars and buses. The cable cars [still in use] are driven by an under street  cable powered the the city electric system for streets too steep for the buses. The buses were electric buses powered by overhead wires, very common world wide prior to diesels taking over. [Overhead electric buses were even around Dallas if I have read the correct propaganda]  In a contained city electric systems are a good fit. The dumb idea was removing the non-polluting electric buses and replacing them with diesels. About the same as replacing diesels with LI batts in farm equipment where they run all day in  remote areas.  

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7 hours ago, acem said:

Sweden has an unusual electric generation profile.

looks similar to ours IMHO

Quote

Canada’s electricity generation is already largely clean, with (as of 2021) some 60% generated via hydro power and another 14% by nuclear power. Fossil fuels (gas, oil and coal) produced about 18% of Canada’s electricity generation. Solar power generated only 0.82% of Canada’s electricity, and wind another 5.6%.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/other/green-trudeau-government-betting-billions-on-uncertain-technological-breakthroughs/ar-AA1aZGt6?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e577dde60df84dc68e3fab22adec803c&ei=42

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I can't get my phone to screen shot but a quick search reveals China emitts 12.7 billion tons of carbon Emissions a year compared to the U.S. 5.1 of a total world wide 31 to 37 billion tons world wide. Depending on which source , year reported ect. Our reported % is 14% of world wide Emissions.  I can't find the video of John Kerry stating this as well as saying if we went to 0% it wouldn't make that much difference.  Imagine that. Add that to the fact the so called science, some would say myth, of climate change is highly debatable and you have a whole lot of balderdash. Jmo.

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On 9/9/2023 at 9:41 PM, acem said:

They are experimenting with electric roads in Sweden and Europe. They make much more sense than battery cars. I like the concept but it has a long way to go.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gcbkjs/why-we-might-soon-drive-cars-on-electrified-roads

I agree that “shore power” makes way more sense than battery storage of electricity for powering highway vehicles.  But if railroads haven’t gone exclusively to shore power electric then I doubt the concept will be widespread for automobiles.  It’s far easier to make a locomotive shore power electric than automobiles, and the RRs haven’t seen it economical yet or they would have done it.

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19 hours ago, oleman said:

What really impressed me, on my first time  ever in San Francisco Ca  in 1964, was the electric bus and cable car system. Perfect application of electric cars and buses. The cable cars [still in use] are driven by an under street  cable powered the the city electric system for streets too steep for the buses. The buses were electric buses powered by overhead wires, very common world wide prior to diesels taking over. [Overhead electric buses were even around Dallas if I have read the correct propaganda]  In a contained city electric systems are a good fit. The dumb idea was removing the non-polluting electric buses and replacing them with diesels. About the same as replacing diesels with LI batts in farm equipment where they run all day in  remote areas.  

Kansa City was well covered with overhead power to street cars in the 40s, Mom often reminisced. It was all removed for most of my life, now they are putting back . Bare pick up cables overhead seem like a bad idea, certainly an obstruction.

8 hours ago, iowaboy1965 said:

I can't get my phone to screen shot but a quick search reveals China emitts 12.7 billion tons of carbon Emissions a year compared to the U.S. 5.1 of a total world wide 31 to 37 billion tons world wide. Depending on which source , year reported ect. Our reported % is 14% of world wide Emissions.  I can't find the video of John Kerry stating this as well as saying if we went to 0% it wouldn't make that much difference.  Imagine that. Add that to the fact the so called science, some would say myth, of climate change is highly debatable and you have a whole lot of balderdash. Jmo.

China is doing the dirty work for American consumers. A big one is smelting aluminum, it’s a filthy operation and it uses a lot of electricity.

Ive been out of the power generation industry for a few years now but when I left China was still building new coal fired power plants while we are shutting them down.
The poison coming out of gas plants is harder to see than a coal stack so America has replaced a lot of coal with gas. There are many shell games in power production wold wide.                   A place I ski at has a sign over the diesel generators running the lift, it says:          Powered by 100% Green Energy

When things are going down the drain you have to remember to Enjoy the Swirl

 

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3 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

Some wag once said that aluminum is a solid form of electricity.

That is a very interesting way to put it. Did you know it was once so prized it was the material chosen for the top of the Washington Monument, more valuable than gold at the time I’ve heard.

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5 hours ago, just Dave said:

That is a very interesting way to put it. Did you know it was once so prized it was the material chosen for the top of the Washington Monument, more valuable than gold at the time I’ve heard.

I have read that.  I don’t know all the processes but apparently it is terribly difficult to refine bauxite into aluminum without electricity.

Interesting note about energy and metal refining that might intrigue you.  I was chatting with a local machine shop owner who had, years ago, gone on a tour of Nucor steel in Norfolk NE.  After the tour he sat down with one of the head honchos of the electric company that had hosted the tour.  Honcho asked if this guy had any questions.  “Just one question.  How much does the electricity cost that this place uses?”  Chuckle.  “I know but I can’t tell you that.  What I can tell you is that this steel plant uses as much electricity as the entire city of Omaha!"

Supposedly Nucor of Norfolk was able to use the entire output of the nuke plant that used to operate in western NE.  Also thought I heard once that Nucor needed to ring up Gavins Point hydroelectric dam at Yankton before firing their furnaces so Gavins Point could be ready to "open the throttle” on the water flow when the load hit.

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personally Electricity works great on railtracks instead for roads but that is just me

even the Russians Siberian Railway runs from Electric wires just like all European railways. Maybe that should be build out more instead of having Electric cars

 

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1 hour ago, Gearclash said:

I have read that.  I don’t know all the processes but apparently it is terribly difficult to refine bauxite into aluminum without electricity.

Interesting note about energy and metal refining that might intrigue you.  I was chatting with a local machine shop owner who had, years ago, gone on a tour of Nucor steel in Norfolk NE.  After the tour he sat down with one of the head honchos of the electric company that had hosted the tour.  Honcho asked if this guy had any questions.  “Just one question.  How much does the electricity cost that this place uses?”  Chuckle.  “I know but I can’t tell you that.  What I can tell you is that this steel plant uses as much electricity as the entire city of Omaha!"

Supposedly Nucor of Norfolk was able to use the entire output of the nuke plant that used to operate in western NE.  Also thought I heard once that Nucor needed to ring up Gavins Point hydroelectric dam at Yankton before firing their furnaces so Gavins Point could be ready to "open the throttle” on the water flow when the load hit.

It's not unusual for very large electrical users to call before applying or shedding load. It can cause problems.

When I worked at the paper mill we arranged with the regional power authority about power needs in general and specifically when we connected or disconnected.  

Electric trains are common in some parts of the world. Our major railroad companies are particularly inefficient and corrupt. I don't want to get started on them...

But I'd love to take the trans Siberian railroad.

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On 9/11/2023 at 6:16 PM, Gearclash said:

I have read that.  I don’t know all the processes but apparently it is terribly difficult to refine bauxite into aluminum without electricity.

Interesting note about energy and metal refining that might intrigue you.  I was chatting with a local machine shop owner who had, years ago, gone on a tour of Nucor steel in Norfolk NE.  After the tour he sat down with one of the head honchos of the electric company that had hosted the tour.  Honcho asked if this guy had any questions.  “Just one question.  How much does the electricity cost that this place uses?”  Chuckle.  “I know but I can’t tell you that.  What I can tell you is that this steel plant uses as much electricity as the entire city of Omaha!"

Supposedly Nucor of Norfolk was able to use the entire output of the nuke plant that used to operate in western NE.  Also thought I heard once that Nucor needed to ring up Gavins Point hydroelectric dam at Yankton before firing their furnaces so Gavins Point could be ready to "open the throttle” on the water flow when the load hit.

Not only does industry have to call power providers before firing up but also the power plants subsidizing and solely using gas have to call as many as two or three pipeline company’s before significant load changes.  I remember a freezing nite jackhammering frozen coal in the reclaim system trying to get the coal fuel firing because the gas supply was going to be cut from us in favor of overall community needs.

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On 9/9/2023 at 9:41 PM, acem said:

They are experimenting with electric roads in Sweden and Europe. They make much more sense than battery cars. I like the concept but it has a long way to go.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gcbkjs/why-we-might-soon-drive-cars-on-electrified-roads

It reminds me of the scale Faller Car System. Only they hide the wire under the street. Wonder if that wouldn't help fight against degradation on the 1:1 roads? Can just go with wireless induction charging then. Don't need a pickup dragging under the car either.

Mike

And, yes.... there are tractors in the vid. 

 

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Even European railways in countries FAR more densely populated than Sweden are only electric in and around cities. If their neighbors can't rationalize electrifying the whole of the rail, how in the world are they going to economically rationalize such a big leap to roads?

I'm all for "don't say it's impossible", but the technical path towards electrification -is clear. Trying to short cut technical progression,... well. I'll stop.

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I'll add electrically GUIDED vehicles are not much of a stretch.

The mere presence of AGV technology (as well as electrically powered cars, trucks, tractors) is at least a century old. It's the economy that's a killer. That said, the relatively lower voltage of guidance is less a stretch that power.

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On 9/10/2023 at 4:41 AM, acem said:

They are experimenting with electric roads in Sweden and Europe. They make much more sense than battery cars. I like the concept but it has a long way to go.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gcbkjs/why-we-might-soon-drive-cars-on-electrified-roads

I think there will be a lot off saftey issues with those roads, like the risk of electrocution. 

Also i have big questions about the effiency of the system, when i was younger i had a lego train and the more track sections i added the slower the train went.

And consider there is a thing like snow, salt, debriss, dirt and rain.

 

Then you need a lot off raw materials like copper, to build the grid.

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