Range cover.....cover

[Coytee]

1066 open station, stays outdoors, no roof at all to protect from elements.  Seems I've got water in my oil so I'm going to try to drain/replace Hytran over the weekend.  Had me wondering after reading some of your comments....

Currently, without knowing, if the water is seeping in via the range cover, I'm thinking, how can I cover, the cover  Think of an umbrella!  I realize there are some linkages in there (but been over 2-years since I've had the 'floor' off so don't recall the makeup of the linkages.

Got to thinking, can I sandwich some form of sheet rubber....  or maybe, call it "sticky insulation" (that you might adhere around a duct or large pipe and have it form-fitted to some degree with the sticky holding it in place, might even be insulated aluminum type stuff that might bend/form and hold its shape)

Unless it's a bad idea for some reason, how might I fabricate something and what might be a viable material to use, to pull floor off, affix the cover OVER the range cover to try to eliminate that as an ingress point and then sandwich under the floor plate?

As I recall, the range shifter cover was replaced by me several years ago when I first got this and replaced wiring, funky shifter thing... Memory tells me the shift cover plate is a flat surface which mated to the flat tractor surface but, I believe there was a gasket in there.  New gasket went in but I don't think I used any silicone/other on it....  so maybe that's a good idea?

Hate spending $400+ to swap the fluid if I don't try to minimize the problem.  I'll admit I don't know if/how where the water might be entering but this does seem like a captain obvious place.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[ChrisMo]

Some kind of shed in a box would keep it out of the elements.

 

[Coytee]

Yeah, it would....but I also keep it attached to the 15' flexwing AND the ROPS might be an issue (unless you can get high openings?)

 

 

[HydroTek]

The water problem I find is where the TA and rear housing join at the top -- there are no bolts to hold the center of the gap -- you can clean out the gap and use Lexel to build a "hump" to seal the gap and cause the water to drain to the sides

Water from the floor pan drains into the unsupported area and leaks past the gasket -- dirt in that crack helps to funnel water past the gasket -- the sealer will help

[756puller]

One other major place I hear that likes to let water in is the boot on the pro valve.

[Coytee]

guessing you mean pto boot?  i should be good there (but will check) i replaced that with new when i rebuilt the pto

[Farmall1066]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:17 PM, Coytee said:

Yeah, it would....but I also keep it attached to the 15' flexwing AND the ROPS might be an issue (unless you can get high openings?)

 

 

Yes they make bigger tarp building’s, they will of course cost more the bigger you get, but you could always drive the tractor in, and leave the mower out.

[Matt Kirsch]

Many farmers leave their 06-66 series tractors sit out around here year-round. We get plenty of rain and snow. It doesn't seem to be a problem for them. Ride 'em hard, put 'em away wet, leave 'em sit for months, and pick right up where they left off. Nobody's going to drop $1000 to change the hydraulic oil.

I just can't see how so much water that it causes problems, can get in unless you park the tractor in the river during monsoon season in a rain forest with a 3' diameter funnel stuck in the transmission fill tube. The few drops that can infiltrate under the deck under the ROPS canopy on the few days it rains will cook out the next time you run the tractor.  It would take DECADES at that rate to even make the oil milky, let alone get enough water contamination to cause problems.

[801486]

You can get water absorbing oil filters, I have part numbers and the process how to do it in an email I can look up if you want.

[Coytee]

Ok folks....

Gimme some wisdom!

Have 25-30 gallons/Hytran.  Dumped old milky oil.  Yanked filter.  Plugged all holes.  Dumped in 15 gallons of TSC "hytran equivilent)

Tractor fired up.....  and near IMMEDIATELY, the steering returned, as in either self primed or, prime was already there and something else is/was at issue killing my steering?)

Either way, went for ride and everything is working.  I want to "rinse" with this Travelers oil, then drain all back and then refill with my new Hytran.

Here's my question...  I also have in my hands:

1. New MCV pump
2. New MCV rebuild kit (with pressure relief)
3. New Spring set

Given that the steering returned in less than 60 seconds, do I keep buying time and just keep the current MCV pump/others (which makes today's job both almost finished and I can hang 15' mower on back again and get some of Sherwood Forest cut down.

I was expecting to at minimum, having to prime the pump so that was nice.  Tractor is currently idling, I'll probalby take it for another ride as I really want to get it up to temp.

Side comment, when I drained the rear three drains, it DOES appear as though water (as in clear) dripped out.  Not much but I went out of my way to notice and I'm comfortable that COMBINED, there was WAY less than say, 1/3 cup of water.  Actually more like less than a teaspoon but, that might infer that the oil is saturated....and or maybe not been up to temp enough to help get rid of it.

None the less....  I tend to over-think things and am now debating on just doing a fluid change since the steering came right back and keep the pump & parts in reserve.

Thoughts?

 

[HydroTek]

Hy-Tran will absorb and hold water -- that is on the label
you need to get the system hot to force the water out of suspension
most here do not use a tractor enough to heat the oil
so, you get the milk shake oil

Using the TC oil will not mix with the water as bad -- it will sit on the bottom of the housing where you can drain the water out
the filter will still soak water, so it needs changed more often

Your steering work at idle ? -- if yes, then the pump is OK for now

[Matt Kirsch]

Is this the first time you, PERSONALLY have changed the hydraulic fluid on the tractor? If so it probably still has the original 1970's Hytran in it. That's the only way I'd believe it was saturated with water without sabotage being involved.

[Coytee]

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Is this the first time you, PERSONALLY have changed the hydraulic fluid on the tractor?

 

Actually no.  I changed it all out when I first got it roughly three years ago (?).  Total fluid change, engine oil, hydraulic, wiring harness, new lights...  wanted a known starting point.

The tractor doesn't get used a lot....I usually just use it to cut the farm and that is twice, maybe three times a year HOWEVER, there is a field in front of the house, I like to keep it cut so when you come to visit or come home, the grass for as far as you can see (to the far tree line) looks nice & cut.  I do that maybe every 2-3 weeks.

 

Now....  I got a bit*h slapped today.

Got the oil changed, twice.  During a startup, I heard a strange sound coming from I THINK the right side (passenger side) of the engine.  I went around to try to home in on it but it went away.  Side fact, I had to use backhoe to jumpstart tractor....  while changing fluids, I left backhoe attached at idle charging the batteries (those skinny 12 volt on each side)

Now, once I got it running, I heard a noise.  If you count "one, two, three" (KUNK), one, two three (KUNK) one, two three (Kunk) and so on.  Was a bit of a strange sound and wasn't going as fast as engine RPM's so my first guess (because of what happened later) might be fuel or maybe pump?)  Given the timing of it it seemed in slow synch with the engine, sort of like you might hear a (slower than RPM speed) lifter ticking but this wasn't a lifter like I've ever heard.

Got things done, took for ride.  On way back, heard that sporadic "kunk".........."kunk".........'Kunk"......and again, I think it went away (I had hearing protection on so everything gets muted)

Got mower back on went to cut a swath.  Circled around the field and notice that the ammeter gauge is nearly pegged to the far right (never seen it do this)  Truth be told, I'm wondering if I 'cooked' the batteries with the backhoe charging them at 14.* volts for quite a while....I DID notice some seepage around the caps of the batteries.

I was paying attention to the ammeter being so high when tractor seemed to stutter (was at PTO speed cutting a swath of grass)

Changed my focus from ammeter to mower sounds, engine sounds, all gauges appear to be fine (save ammeter)....  tractor carries on for 50 more feet, then sounded like a stutter again.

I was going to slow things down so hit the throttle to dial back the RPM's....  and they kept dying....  engine died.

I wasn't sure if I had killed engine accidently or if it was on a rpm death spiral.  Tried to start....  engine turned over a bit (thanks to some of the charging) but didn't start.  Had to walk over to backhoe, hook cables up again BUT, was unable to get started.

NORMALLY when I'm starting it cold, I will see some wisps of smoke coming out the exhaust....  once I see those wisps I know it's going to start soon.

I specifically looked at the exhaust flapper and ZERO wisps of smoke, suggesting to me no fuel.  I glanced at fuel pump and it DOES have and HAS HAD for a while, dampness on the top/dome where fuel weeps out at a very slow pace.  I've never seen it drip at all....  just moisture around that round part.

Shut down and now it's parked on hill.  I'll try again tomorrow but I'm getting a bad feeling about this.  I don't think this is going to be just a filter replacement on anything.

Given my highly technical description of the timing and the 'kunk' sound.....  any ideas?

 

 

 

[TN Hillbilly]

1066, so a diesel, right?

Have you recently changed fuel filters?

Start with simple stuff. It cranks over. Will it hit on ether?

Does it have a manual primer pump? If so, bleed all the lines to the pump and filters, then bleed the injector lines.

It sounds fuel related to me. May have nothing to do with the other work you've done. May be something simple. Don't get too worried yet, just work through the process, if it turns out to be something major, worry about it then.

[mmi]

On 9/3/2023 at 9:20 AM, 801486 said:

You can get water absorbing oil filters, I have part numbers and the process how to do it in an email I can look up if you want.

do they catch AF  in the oil?

[stronger800]

Pump primer pump 25x and see if you hear fuel being pumped back into the fuel tank.  If so, then you’ll need a helper to crank the tractor over  as you loose each injector line, at the injectors one at a time .  You should get fuel squirting out of them, as you do, tighten back up. Do just a few and it should try to fire, or start. If fuel is the issue.  If you don’t hear the hand pump

pumping fuel up to the tank, loosen the bleeders on filter tops and see if you can pump fuel out of them. If not,change  filters 

[801486]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:15 PM, mmi said:

do they catch AF  in the oil?

I don't know about that, but I would guess they might.  The guy that told me about doing it had gotten spray solution  in his hytran when hydraulic drive sprayer pump screwed up.

[mmi]

1 hour ago, 801486 said:

I don't know about that, but I would guess they might.  The guy that told me about doing it had gotten spray solution  in his hytran when hydraulic drive sprayer pump screwed up.

would like to follow up, if like fuel /water separator ,they can pull water sludge from gear oil .

it shouldnt be hard to pull AF from engine oil,if only externally,

Ie:  Ih gd 179/239 that weeps when setting 

[Coytee]

On 9/4/2023 at 9:47 PM, stronger800 said:

Pump primer pump 25x and see if you hear fuel being pumped back into the fuel tank.  If so, then you’ll need a helper to crank the tractor over  as you loose each injector line, at the injectors one at a time .  You should get fuel squirting out of them, as you do, tighten back up. Do just a few and it should try to fire, or start. If fuel is the issue.  If you don’t hear the hand pump

pumping fuel up to the tank, loosen the bleeders on filter tops and see if you can pump fuel out of them. If not,change  filters 

 

Sorry for late update...  I had a bit of a trifecta....  Had a tooth crowned today.  I was then supposed to prepare for a colonoscopy today, drive 3 hours to Nashville for procedure tomorrow (but this has been cancelled) BECAUSE.....  been suffering from a kidney stone for about 2-weeks.  Finally went to ER other day and told me it was 7mm and passed along the tube and was trying to get into the bladder but, too big AND I had a larger one behind it.

That turned into a real long story but, finally got the stones out, which is why I posponed the trip to Nashville AND didn't work too much on this....until today.

 

So, new filters in.  Loosened the vent on top of the filters, pumped and now, seem to have a nice stream coming out timed with the pump (suggesting little air).  Put new battery on tractor as well, now it cranks like a champ.

Not even a puff of smoke.  Loosened the injectors on top, had them glistening so some fuel was coming out (but nobody cranked while I did process, I had to get up/down to do this)

Here's what I thought might be interesting.....  on the front of the pump, is the 'round' section.  On a lark, I loosened one of those, expecting to see fuel shoot out....and barely got a dribble.  Presuming this is higher pressure side, that made me curious.

Is there any way I can test this for raw pressure?  

 

Also, I thought maybe we can pull start tractor.  I think I learned a harsh lesson.  Without engine running and hydraulic pressure, you are essentially stuck in neutral?  Cause it wasn't rotating the engine at all!!!  Initially had my heart sinking that it was going to cost a bundle, then remembered the central focus hydraulic pressure plays with this so presumed it can't be bump started.  (pulled tractor, 15' flexwing with my backhoe....wife driving backhoe)

 

 

 

 

[HydroTek]

That hydraulic hose on the injection pump is a no no -- you need the "squishy" hose from the dealer -- the soft hose absorbs the pulsations from the pump

I usually loose the injector lines at the pump, , instead of the injector end -- much easier to see when fuel is pumping

Loose the injector lines -- smack sideways with your wrench to break the line free -- be sure the line wiggles

Use the hand primer and and bleed air at the filters -- close the bleeder and continue pumping until you hear air or fuel pumped to the tank
primer should get harder to pump

Crank and look for fuel squirting from the line fittings

[Coytee]

I've heard about having a wrong hose....this was on when I got it.  Guess I'll try to hunt one down.  I think this has some drying cracks in it BUT, they are small...still, if it's the wrong thing, no problem changing it.

Interesting point about smacking the lines.  I didn't do that.  The primer had become harder to pump but, if this helps...

 

when I first used the primer, it just flopped around.  Took a moment for it to fill up and then pressurize.  Not knowing if it's rebuildable, I'm guessing it's got a weakening pump action in it as some diesel spritzed out when I pulled it out.

Otherwise, it did pressurize.  When it pressurized, the fuel didn't spray out (it was almost like it dribbled past an internal seal and then came out on the initial pump)

On my backhoe, all I have to do is crack (usually a single) injector....  crank engine, you can easily SEE the fuel squirt out....machine will idle very rough, as you tighten the loose injector(s), the idle will smooth out and you're up & running.  I can do that in 5-minutes....  spent maybe hour on this.  I didn't take engine cover off which would have made it a bit easier to get in there.

 

[Coytee]

19 minutes ago, HydroTek said:

That hydraulic hose on the injection pump is a no no -- you need the "squishy" hose from the dealer

Is this the correct part?

https://www.batescorp.com/688190c1-line-fuel-supply.html#review-form

 

 

[HydroTek]

Yup, that hose is correct

The primer can be resealed -- the knob will turn off and there is a quad ring on the plunger -- you can use an oring in there also

Use some pliers at the top of the pump to thread it out of the housing -- don't grip on the middle

there is also an oring on the top of the pump that seals against the knob on the plunger that should be replaced

Reason to smack the lines sideways , is to loose the taper seal on the line ends -- they get stuck
spray some penetrating oil before loosening the lines to clean dirt out of the crack on the end of the nut

[RPG]

I hope this isn't your issue, but you have 2 symptoms of a worn injection pump, particularly the single plunger Ambac 100 like is on the 66 and 86 series. 1 is that it doesn't pump fuel at starting rpm. If you give it a little ether, or pull it off, you spin the pump a little faster and it runs. 2 is if you pull the rpms down quickly, even if you don't go as far as kill position, it will often keep decelerating and die.

[Coytee]

Not that I'm rooting for a bad or dying pump....but I do sort of keep a sideways view of it as something I'll have to deal with sooner or later.

So, let me ask...

On top of the pump is the round "lid" that the injector lines attach to.  The other day, I physically removed one of the lines and cranked it over.  I was expecting to see fuel shoot out of the connection and I essentially, got bubbles shooting out.

 

Me, knowing essentially nothing about how this is working inside....  would that be an immediate issue OR, could it still be a non issue if I have air (or blockage just to be fair) prior)  Or, is my premise correct that I SHOULD see fuel spurt out of there?

It's not given me any issues up to now....and honestly, I'd expect it to be a bit too ironic if I had a problem with it right as I have starting issues which cause me to replace the batteries (now done) and fuel filters (now done) BUT, not yet sure if it's fully burped of air.

Engine rotates better now with the new battery than the two old skinny units that were on it (went back to single "car" style battery).

Would that round hub be an easy place to do a "low level" bleed of air so I can (presumably) get fuel there and then, only have to worry about from there to injectors.  

 

Supposed to rain today.  Groan.