Absent Minded Farmer Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 2 hours ago, 1256pickett said: 4 hours on a charge? What the h#*! are they thinking? Probably taking the current generation's attention span into consideration. 😄 Mike 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Minded Farmer Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 17 minutes ago, Steve C. said: There's another cost to figure, too. Let's say we get tens of millions of EVs - cars, tractors, trucks...what happens to all those millions of dead batteries? Maybe we can bury them under ground-up windmill blades? Or put them in a pit with used-up solar panels and hope they don't catch fire or leach out anything nasty. Sounds like more NIMBY fodder too. At least the media outlets will have something to quack about. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C. Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 21 minutes ago, MTB98 said: They can be recycled. Hybrid batteries, such as those used in the Toyota Prius, have been around for more than 25 years now. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a44022888/electric-car-battery-recycling/ And the usual suspects line up at the trough. From the Car and Driver article: The U.S. Department of Energy even gave Redwood a $2 billion loan to build out its Nevada factory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Minded Farmer Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 11 minutes ago, MTB98 said: They can be recycled. Hybrid batteries, such as those used in the Toyota Prius, have been around for more than 25 years now. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a44022888/electric-car-battery-recycling/ Why run the generator when you can just plug into the tractor? https://www.caseih.com/en-us/unitedstates/products/tractors/farmall-series/farmall-electric-tractor Did anyone notice.... All that expensive BATTERY tractor & dude is using a saw with a cord!! A cord!!! Did the ad agency not think that one through??? S'pose.... the closest thing they see to hand tools are a pen & keyboard. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIHTECH Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 11 hours ago, Gearclash said: they will not likely be a CNH product. So what brand would you consider?? Working on pretty much all brands here I can tell you all the new ones are about equal. You just have to pick your next tractor based on dealer support, which around here is slipping by the day. Parts prices are a moot point, JD is over priced on item X and dirt cheap on item Y, Same can be said for CNH so at end of day it's a wash. Agco products are poorly supported for parts & service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeper61 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 11 hours ago, MTB98 said: 110kw battery is equivalent to almost 10 gallons of diesel It's amazing how easy it is to put out a 10 gallon diesel fire Must be energy density in play here 110KW battery module 10 gallon fuel container Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Doctor Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Sign me up for a front row seat. Not to close though. For the fire? It will be impressive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearclash Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 2 hours ago, CIHTECH said: So what brand would you consider?? Working on pretty much all brands here I can tell you all the new ones are about equal. You just have to pick your next tractor based on dealer support, which around here is slipping by the day. Parts prices are a moot point, JD is over priced on item X and dirt cheap on item Y, Same can be said for CNH so at end of day it's a wash. Agco products are poorly supported for parts & service. Good question. Deere is out I think. I despise Deere corporate, albeit only marginally more than the rest. Deere doesn’t seem to have the IVT thing figured out, and if I updated, IVT/CVT would be a big reason why. There is pretty good support for AGCO around here, and I would take a look at a Massey labeled tractor, and Fendt. Both of those brand labels are making a big dent in the larger straight frame tractor market around here, pushing aside both Deere and CNH. Part of me wants to put together a component tractor specially for one application I have because the demands of it are unique. Need more speed and power than weight. That application would benefit the most from a CVT concept transmission. Probably just dreams though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Doctor Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 22 hours ago, Gearclash said: Good question. Deere is out I think. I despise Deere corporate, albeit only marginally more than the rest. Deere doesn’t seem to have the IVT thing figured out, and if I updated, IVT/CVT would be a big reason why. There is pretty good support for AGCO around here, and I would take a look at a Massey labeled tractor, and Fendt. Both of those brand labels are making a big dent in the larger straight frame tractor market around here, pushing aside both Deere and CNH. Part of me wants to put together a component tractor specially for one application I have because the demands of it are unique. Need more speed and power than weight. That application would benefit the most from a CVT concept transmission. Probably just dreams though. IVT/CVT transmissions in cars have been a known failure point, guaranteed. Using a steel belt to handle the power to a steel variable pulleys are the issues. But, everything new has to work out the bugs, and usually with the consumers paying the bills. I am wondering about the diesel/electric which is used by trains. It cannot be any more dangerous than these burning and exploding battery packs in cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearclash Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 1 hour ago, Diesel Doctor said: IVT/CVT transmissions in cars have been a known failure point, guaranteed. Using a steel belt to handle the power to a steel variable pulleys are the issues. But, everything new has to work out the bugs, and usually with the consumers paying the bills. I am wondering about the diesel/electric which is used by trains. It cannot be any more dangerous than these burning and exploding battery packs in cars? The automobile CVT concept is, in my view, retarded. Anybody who had any experience with the variable belt transmission used by snowmobiles and some ATVs would have laughed the engineers to scorn who thought such a system would be acceptable in an automobile. The IVT/CVT in tractors uses a hydrostatic transmission to accomplish the infinitely variation. The driveline power does not all pass through the hydro though like the old IH hydro tractors. There is, to me, no reason why the IVT concept in tractors cannot be made at least as reliable as a power shift transmission. Unless I am badly mistaken, the problem with a diesel over electric transmission is speed control. Not a big deal with huge amounts of mass to damp the effects of power changes, not so easy with the relatively light weight and widely varying loads of a tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyfarm Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 1 minute ago, Gearclash said: The automobile CVT concept is, in my view, retarded. Anybody who had any experience with the variable belt transmission used by snowmobiles and some ATVs would have laughed the engineers to scorn who thought such a system would be acceptable in an automobile. The IVT/CVT in tractors uses a hydrostatic transmission to accomplish the infinitely variation. The driveline power does not all pass through the hydro though like the old IH hydro tractors. There is, to me, no reason why the IVT concept in tractors cannot be made at least as reliable as a power shift transmission. Unless I am badly mistaken, the problem with a diesel over electric transmission is speed control. Not a big deal with huge amounts of mass to damp the effects of power changes, not so easy with the relatively light weight and widely varying loads of a tractor. My wife has a Cvt in a Subaru we bought new. About 130,000 miles on it now. Prior to this she drove several different manual trans Subaru vehicles. It did increase the mpg vd manual and seems to work flawlessly. Why is cvt in a car such a bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearclash Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 5 minutes ago, hobbyfarm said: My wife has a Cvt in a Subaru we bought new. About 130,000 miles on it now. Prior to this she drove several different manual trans Subaru vehicles. It did increase the mpg vd manual and seems to work flawlessly. Why is cvt in a car such a bad idea? The idea is great, how it is accomplished is not. A steel link belt and variable pulleys is not a recipe for longevity. Subaru uses it just like everybody else. Lot of wear parts in those systems. In concept the automotive CVT is exactly like the old variable belt drive first used for variable ground speed of combines and forage harvesters. It was soon replaced by a hydrostatic drive system which remains pretty much the mainstay today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Doctor Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 A real life tale of EV's in use. Wisconsin State Trooper: about EV I'm not a fan of all-electric vehicles. Too many variables affect battery consumption, charging, and reliability. Definitely, not suited for cold climates, timely "fueling", or long drives. The following experience just cements my distaste for all-electric vehicles. I got sent to a motorist assist the other day, at the start of our snowstorm. Tesla on the side of the interstate, dead battery. So, I arrive on the scene and the occupants have the right-front door open. They tell me that they can't open any other doors, because the battery is dead. Sure enough. Can't open the doors from inside or outside. The driver also can't get her license out of the glove box where she put it during their trip. Because the glove box opens electronically... and the battery is dead. You, actually, have to use the computer in the center of the dash to open the glove box. They said they had 10% battery left, should've been plenty to get from that location to the charging station nearby. Then all of a sudden, the whole car shut off and they coasted to the shoulder. So now I have to find them a tow. No one wants to tow EVs. Finally, found one company to do it. It was an 8-mile trip to the charging station in Tomah. $1,000! A normal vehicle on the flatbed would've been $150, but then again, gasoline powered cars don't, spontaneously, explode or burn when the battery gets wet. So now we're at the Tesla superchargers. Guess what...wait for it… You can't open the charging port because the battery is dead!!! The ports open, you guessed it, electronically!!!, and we, also, can't open the doors now (had to close the one open door when it was loaded onto the wrecker). The owner's manual is on the onboard computer, but the battery is dead. I got the occupants to a store where they'd be warm while calling the rental company to figure out how to charge this POS, so I'm not sure of the outcome. I had to leave for a crash report. EVs may be the way, maybe....someday....but, certainly, not today!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Beale Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 Crank this in - 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTB98 Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 21 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said: A real life tale of EV's in use. Wisconsin State Trooper: about EV I'm not a fan of all-electric vehicles. Too many variables affect battery consumption, charging, and reliability. Definitely, not suited for cold climates, timely "fueling", or long drives. The following experience just cements my distaste for all-electric vehicles. I got sent to a motorist assist the other day, at the start of our snowstorm. Tesla on the side of the interstate, dead battery. So, I arrive on the scene and the occupants have the right-front door open. They tell me that they can't open any other doors, because the battery is dead. Sure enough. Can't open the doors from inside or outside. The driver also can't get her license out of the glove box where she put it during their trip. Because the glove box opens electronically... and the battery is dead. You, actually, have to use the computer in the center of the dash to open the glove box. They said they had 10% battery left, should've been plenty to get from that location to the charging station nearby. Then all of a sudden, the whole car shut off and they coasted to the shoulder. So now I have to find them a tow. No one wants to tow EVs. Finally, found one company to do it. It was an 8-mile trip to the charging station in Tomah. $1,000! A normal vehicle on the flatbed would've been $150, but then again, gasoline powered cars don't, spontaneously, explode or burn when the battery gets wet. So now we're at the Tesla superchargers. Guess what...wait for it… You can't open the charging port because the battery is dead!!! The ports open, you guessed it, electronically!!!, and we, also, can't open the doors now (had to close the one open door when it was loaded onto the wrecker). The owner's manual is on the onboard computer, but the battery is dead. I got the occupants to a store where they'd be warm while calling the rental company to figure out how to charge this POS, so I'm not sure of the outcome. I had to leave for a crash report. EVs may be the way, maybe....someday....but, certainly, not today!! Somehow a thread about an electric tractor turned into a Tesla thread. The Tesla doors open and close with 12v power, not the battery pack used to drive the wheel motors. A couple minutes in the owners manual will tell you how to manually open the doors, jump start the 12v battery and how to properly tow a Tesla. As far as cold weather climates, the Scandinavian countries have very high percentage numbers of EVs on the road. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-3567D5F4-A5F4-4323-8BE0-023D5438FFC6.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeper61 Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 Yes just image being traped in an owls cage becuse you can't get out becuase the battery died 🤣 Having actulay owned an EV I will fill you in on the 12 volt battery experance The 12 volt battery gets charged off the main battery pack So if it goes bad i.e. won't hold a charge it goes dead quickly and all those 12 volt operated things cease to funtion 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy WP Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 On 8/28/2023 at 8:49 PM, MTB98 said: Why run the generator when you can just plug into the tractor? It is my understanding that these are strictly battery operated correct? How long can you power a home with it, in say 20 below weather with a wind chill of about-150? Your comment just makes no sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillman Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 4 minutes ago, Lazy WP said: It is my understanding that these are strictly battery operated correct? How long can you power a home with it, in say 20 below weather with a wind chill of about-150? Your comment just makes no sense. hopefully long enough to use the block heater on your diesel tractor so you can use a reliable source of energy to power your generator👨🎓 just don't park the new Farmall in the way just in case its dead when you fire up your real tractor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTB98 Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 21 minutes ago, jeeper61 said: Yes just image being traped in an owls cage becuse you can't get out becuase the battery died 🤣 Having actulay owned an EV I will fill you in on the 12 volt battery experance The 12 volt battery gets charged off the main battery pack So if it goes bad i.e. won't hold a charge it goes dead quickly and all those 12 volt operated things cease to funtion You’re not trapped because there is a way to manually open the doors. The 12v battery is like a standard ICE battery and does the same kinds of things. 20 minutes ago, Lazy WP said: It is my understanding that these are strictly battery operated correct? How long can you power a home with it, in say 20 below weather with a wind chill of about-150? Your comment just makes no sense. Why would you run the PTO and have operating efficiency loss to run a generator that also has operating efficiency loss? Plug into the tractor and avoid the compounded losses. How long can you power whatever it is you’re trying to power? It’s about 100 kWh battery so you’d need to do the math with your expected power load. If it doesn’t meet your requirements then you need to find an alternative. My small generator can’t run my well pump. So I have a larger generator for that. I did the calculations and came to the conclusion I needed something else that was larger. If providing electricity to power your home for days from this tractor is a requirement then this isn’t for you and you can choose from thousands of other tractors and generators that fit your needs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeper61 Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 7 minutes ago, MTB98 said: The 12v battery is like a standard ICE battery and does the same kinds of things. What EV do you have? Operates the door locks etc........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeper61 Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 1 hour ago, Lazy WP said: How long can you power a home with it, in say 20 below weather with a wind chill of about-150? You might get a night out of it But you don't want to run it dead at that tempature becuse it might wreck the battery So best to fire up the ICE generator to keep the house going And you might want to think about keeping the electric Farmall plugged in at that tempature to keep the batteries warm so it better be a big genset 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTB98 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 11 hours ago, hillman said: hopefully long enough to use the block heater on your diesel tractor so you can use a reliable source of energy to power your generator👨🎓 just don't park the new Farmall in the way just in case its dead when you fire up your real tractor 11 hours ago, jeeper61 said: You might get a night out of it But you don't want to run it dead at that tempature becuse it might wreck the battery So best to fire up the ICE generator to keep the house going And you might want to think about keeping the electric Farmall plugged in at that tempature to keep the batteries warm so it better be a big genset So you need the electric tractor to run the block heater on the diesel so it can start (as long as the fuel isn’t gelled) to run a PTO generator to charge the electric tractor? Almost like a chicken and egg story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeper61 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Actually you don’t need the electric Farmall you just need a generator And I have a gas tractor for such below zero events starts every time no plug in needed 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeper61 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 And just for the record here is that gas tractor. 1969 Ford out lasted the two previous operators and will likely outlast me as well. It is one of my treasures and I am proud to display it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehammer Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 18 minutes ago, jeeper61 said: And just for the record here is that gas tractor. 1969 Ford out lasted the two previous operators and will likely outlast me as well. It is one of my treasures and I am proud to display it. Unlike some people…. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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