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856-D questions


Fredgg

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I’m new at restoring an old tractor and would appreciate some advice. Looking to get this tractor into the hay field, not into a show. The tractor has been abandoned in a Virginia field for six plus years uncovered and neglected. 

I got the motor running this week. My input to get that to happen included: removal of starter motor and manually turning the flywheel; rebuilt starter motor; new batteries; drain radiator, oil and old fuel; new filters in fuel line, oil, and air; got air out of fuel line to injector pump;  new front tire that was flat; and clean up air intake area and motor. Motor started right up and ran smoothly.

But there is no steering; there is no shifting into neutral; and there is not any hydraulic fluid on the dip stick. The steering wheel turns freely as does the universal joint just below the steering wheel. There is no other movement in the other steering components. 

I can move the range lever and the speed lever but they are both very difficult to do so. Especially the range level which also wants to move laterally in addition to forward and backwards.

There is some hydraulic fluid in the tractor but I will drain it tomorrow. I have new fluid, and a hydraulic filter and gasket to replace to see if a known quantity and quality of hydraulic fluid help with steering and with shifting gears. 
 

There is a slow leak from the injection pump that I cannot locate the exact location on the pump where diesel fuel is leaking.

What else might be found wrong from your experience?

thanks in advance.

Fred

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Congratulations. That looks like a nice tractor no matter what it takes for work. Rear tires look good. I would add some cheap oil, just enough to get some showing on the hyd stick to the add mark,  and then on the side of the tractor, right behind the left running board, is the multiple control valve, (the only steel plate that has a dozen or so small bolts with copper washers on the face of it) on the -back edge-of that towards the rear of the tractor there is a hex plug that takes a 5/8 thin wall socket. Remove that plug. Start the tractor. As soon as oil shoots out of the plug hole, shut the Tractor off, put the plug back in. See if the steering works.  that’s called “bleeding the MCV.”
 Changing all of the fluid in the filter would be the next step, but it’s worth a shot trying to get some steering without wasting all of the oil, in the event that you have bigger problems and something needs to come apart. Hopefully not.

Lubricate all of the shifting linkages that you can see with your favorite type of penetrating oil. Then at the bottom of the steering column on top of the transmission, you will find the rods where the shifting linkages are attached into the transmission. There are roll pins there, Verify that they are in place and not broken and falling out. There was a recent discussion here this week about shifter roll pins, if you look back, you’ll find it.

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Oh Wow.  That is a very nice find.  There are many people that think the 856D was the best IH tractor ever (we can all argue about that, but its certainly a good contender!)  a good clean looking unit like that is very worth putting some work into to get going.

Getting the motor running is the main thing....the rest is just simple stuff in the rear end (hopefully!)

I don't see a TA lever on the left side of the steering column - did you remove it to remove the shields?  It looks like there is just a hole there- not a shaft on a pivot for a lever.  If so, its likely this tractor is what they call a "TA Delete".  If there really is no TA lever or linkage - then the Tranny is just clutch & gears - if it won't move the clutch is bad or its in neutral and won't shift into gear.

You may want to remove the platform to clean on the top of the transmission and watch what the linkages do as you move the shift levers.

I agree the first thing is to get the steering going if possible.   Prime the MCV as noted.   The steering, brakes, and TA (if equipped) all worked off the MCV pump.   3pt and remotes were a separate system.

I think a lotta guys are feeling jelly (red of course) looking at that paint & those tires....

 

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You are correct - just hadn't zoomed in that far!   That makes troubleshooting/fixing it even easier, as there is no TA to deal with as to why it isn't moving.

So the entire rear end is just clutch, 4 speed range, 2 speed Hi-Lo-Reverse, differential, bull gears.   About as simple as can be.

The MCV still powers to steering and brakes.  

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Manual clutch to with no hyd assist ( forget if ours had one when I was a kid it is really the only 856 I been around) should be simple to get to move.I would check linkage,free it up, grease,oil it to get it to move.I would just use bar or something if I had to at top of transmission cover to get it in any  gear to rock it.Be careful that the park lock isn't engaged also. Then I would after it's out of the weeds change hyd filter and had oil.

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Good find there. Keep after it ,you’ll get going . ,sorry dont have any advice other than change all the fluids and filters ,air cleaner 

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Sounds like the shifter housing is missing from the right side of the steering console, and all you have there are levers. There should be a box surrounding the shift levers with guides and labels to tell you what gear you're in.

Range lever should move sideways in Neutral to engage the Reverse shift linkage, to the right and back toward you for Reverse. It's a lower case "h" pattern.

Put some hydraulic fluid in it. Universal Tractor Transmission Fluid is fine. 

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On 8/18/2023 at 5:14 PM, from H to 80 said:

Any tractor sitting in the weeds around here, isn't worth loading,i'm jealous.

I've got to pay closer attention to my weeds?

Maybe I can find an 856 in there.

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Thank you all so much for your valued input. To date, the tractor motor is running, smoothly and well in my humble opinion.

The tractor had only three gallons of hydraulic fluid in it. There was no sign of drainage under the tractor in the dirt where it has sat for years. The hydraulic fluid was milky from the filter cover and from one of the three drain plugs I removed. With that, I added a new filter and 17 gallons of fluid. The steering works well now after a few full revolutions of the steering wheel in both directions to pump the fluid into the steering motor.

I can get the tractor into forward low range and reverse low range, but I cannot get the transmission into neutral or high range. I like the suggestion to remove the platform and look at the linkages on top of the transmission to free them up, or at least, see what is and is not moving freely.

There is some leakage from the injection pump linkage. It seems to come and go with no relationship to running the motor or not. But that will be one of the next projects. Things that seem to work properly- PTO; three point hitch, brakes, seat, and clutch. Things to look more closely at: radiator leak at left side drain for oil cooler, I believe; transmission shifter; and injection pump leak, and there are probably other things I have not consider to date. 

Again, thanks for the input and I will post more when completed or when questions arise.

hydraulic filter cover with watery oil.jpeg

hydraulic filter cover.jpeg

roosa master injection pump close up.jpeg

roosa-master injection pump full view.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, Drysleeves said:

It looks to be nice and clean in the filter housing. Will be all set for the next step in the process with the milky solution summarily removed from the premises. Was there a combination metal screen/spring assembly inside the housing with the filter?

Yes that would be the filter bypass valve. Goes in end of filter next to cover.

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Yes, the screen and the valve are in place. I used the old ones with a new filter and a new rubber gasket on the filter and a fiber gasket on the filter cover.

With just a few twists of the steering wheel, steering was great to see.  The puzzle is how did the previous owner get the tractor to function with so little hydraulic fluid. There is no sign of it leaking out over the years where the tractor has parked.

Previous comments mention the TA. I don't know exactly what I am looking for, but I have over looked it if any lever or knob for a TA function is present.

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From your pictures - your tractor is a "TA Delete" - ie it was made without one.   The TA (Torque Amplifer) was a early "shift on the fly" "HI/LO".    Sorta a 2 speed powershift - somewhat similar to a 2 speed rear axle in truck.  When you got in a hard pull, you could pull the TA back to slow down and power thru. 

The lever would have been on the left side of the dash - opposite the shifter on the Right side.

 Internally, you have a straight thru shaft where the TA clutches sat, right behind the clutch.

Not having the TA means you have 8 gears, not 16.  You will have to stop & shift down, instead of flipping a lever on the fly....which is nice but not that big a deal.  It also means you don't have a TA to fail - the TA was the most problematic part of the tranny.   This is exactly why IH offered a "Delete" version - it saved a bit of money and catered to those who didn't want the extra complexity.

BTW- Not having a TA doesn't affect the value of your tractor at all!  Some prefer the TA, some prefer it gone!

It doesn't take all that long for oil to soak in, flushed down with rain, until there is no sign left.   Less than a year.   I accidentally dropped the drain plug and dumped an entire 25 gallon of ALMOST NEW HyTran on the ground in from my shop - a year later you couldn't see anything.   The other option is that is where the tractor finally stopped - & he never got back to add oil!

Lots of people are gonna be hunting in the tall weeds - "See, this guy found a good running 856 with just a couple of minor leaks in his weeds...."  (Lucky Dog) 😁

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33 minutes ago, Fredgg said:

Previous comments mention the TA. I don't know exactly what I am looking for, but I have over looked it if any lever or knob for a TA function is present.

You have a TA delete tractor, so you don’t have to worry about a TA.  You have just a straight 8 speed.  
If only 3 gallons of hydraulic oil are all you got out of that system, he was not using it, that maybe the reason it was parked? My dad just bought an 826 and it only had 10 gallons in it, and it had cavitation, hard jerky steering and TA wouldn’t stay locked in direct drive, so 3 gallons, it wouldn’t function.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Radiator is leaking a bit- 2 quarts over two weeks with an hour of motor running during that time.  I cannot see the hole (s) where the leak is, but it does not appear to be either upper or lower new hoses or their connections. Are the radiator solutions worth a try, or should I remove he radiator and take it to get cleaned out and fixed? If solutions are the way to proceed, any favorite?

On a positive note, with the motor running, the leak of diesel fuel at the throttle leakage on the injection pump appears to have completely stopped! Maybe one win for me.

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If you're losing coolant and you can't see a leak, that's not good. Means it could be going into the engine. 

That's not something the 856 engine is known for, so it's unlikely, but possible.

Unless you can see wetness on the radiator, there's nothing to "fix" so taking it out would be a waste of time and money.

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My bad description! I see the water and coolant leaking onto the ground, especially on the left side of the radiator. I just cannot see on the radiator where the leak starts.

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