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Super m timing with lp head


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My super m has 40* total timing plate. I have wondered now if this is too much timing for my tractor with an lp head. I only use it for pulling and use 100 octane fuel. I have heard that cnh would send a timing kit with when you put fire craters or whatever they were for the rebuild kits. Thoughts?

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What problem are you having with it? If it falls flat on its face as it gets pulled down. That may be a problem. If the engine is roaring away while the tires are throwing dirt. Then you're worrying about the wrong thing.

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10 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

What problem are you having with it? If it falls flat on its face as it gets pulled down. That may be a problem. If the engine is roaring away while the tires are throwing dirt. Then you're worrying about the wrong thing.

Have not even pulled it yet, but I didn't want to cause engine harm or detonation. I couldn't hear any detonation when I hooked to a loaded trash dumpster, the big roll off ones, and could spin them in 1st. Mostly I was looking to tune it and really didn't know how much was too much. I don't have a dyno, so I kind of just have to shoot in the dark. 

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On 7/31/2023 at 3:16 PM, vtfireman85 said:

Running on gas? You need a 22.5 degree shaft. 

he is running 100 octane. , a dyno would be very nice to play with it

 

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I think even with 100 Octane you are still going to want the 22.5 degree plate. My 400 with high domes and lp head knocks bad when under a good hard pull even with 110LL in it (tractor is making 190 lbs compression) . I haven't confirmed what plate is in it, but it had factory flat tops in it when I pulled it apart so assuming it is I believe the factory 30 degree plate. I have also read where a cub used a 16 degree plate and I wonder what that would do. 

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14 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Stiffer springs to retard faster under load.

Doesn’t help, my brother got beat with a stiffer stick than I did, hes still a slow retard. 

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I have no idea what you need for timing. I don't know what rpm your turning. High octane fuel burns slower. The faster you run it the sooner you have to light the fire. The size of the hole in the plate determines total advance. The weights and springs determine when advance occurs. Hook to dyno with timing light. Load to different speeds and turn distributor to find what you need. Make necessary adjustments. 

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The Letter Series are relatively low compression engines with gas head and flat pistons. does anyone know the cr of one with an LP head with and without domed pistons

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Don't have Hillman's answer. Point I was trying to make and failed. Is if you limit total advance to avoid knocking in overload. You are limiting power at the high end. The further you can go at the high end. The further you will go.

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On 7/30/2023 at 1:30 PM, Binderoid said:

CNH? C-IH barely knew what a Farmall M was...

I knew I had a brand new plate here and was surprised to see its in a CNH box last price is a little steep 

https://www.messicks.com/part/362723R91 

I wanted to show the difference between the 22 and 30 plates so I started taking a few apart and couldn't find a 30. found a 25 but all 22 that I took apart ( I may take a few more apart later if someone wants to see the difference).

I am not convinced of any plate that will get the max for you with that head without some experimenting.

I can sell you a new or used 22 if that helps 

 

20230804_101107_001.jpg

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8 hours ago, hillman said:

I knew I had a brand new plate here and was surprised to see its in a CNH box last price is a little steep 

https://www.messicks.com/part/362723R91 

I wanted to show the difference between the 22 and 30 plates so I started taking a few apart and couldn't find a 30. found a 25 but all 22 that I took apart ( I may take a few more apart later if someone wants to see the difference).

I am not convinced of any plate that will get the max for you with that head without some experimenting.

I can sell you a new or used 22 if that helps 

 

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F-400 tractors started using the late LP head at serial # 28211, engine # 161366 and think the compression was advertised as 8.35 to one. IH started installing the 16- degree distributor at serial 30193 and dealers were supposed to do a field change on tractors 28211 to 30192. F-450 LP also used the 16 degree and compression listed from 8.76 down to 8.5. SM gas came with 30- degree plate. Several other supper models also did. lot of fire crater kits used the 22- degree plate. IH didn't include the plate with 400 and 450 gas and left them at 25- degree. If tunning a small hole plate comes in handy if wanting to make total advance more by changing hole size. Hole can also be filled. IH used to sell 10 or more spring sets for the distributors that was handy for tunning. about all dropped. Bought up some years ago and about out. Not sure what the octane of gas was when tractors were built compared to now, but a higher octane would change tunning. IH  didn't want the engines used then for field work to be set for maximum power. Bulletins were sent to dealers warning them not to.

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1 hour ago, hillman said:

^ that is awesome

He is one of the better/best on here surrounding the letter series lineup ...

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2 minutes ago, bitty said:

He is one of the better/best on here surrounding the letter series lineup ...

Agreed, @pete23 was a letter series encyclopedia, but I haven’t seen him in ages. 

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Just now, vtfireman85 said:

Agreed, @pete23 was a letter series encyclopedia, but I haven’t seen him in ages. 

Yes he was awesome also but unfortunately he has disappeared from here ....

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6 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

Agreed, @pete23 was a letter series encyclopedia, but I haven’t seen him in ages. 

Yes he was awesome also but unfortunately he has disappeared from here ....

Not to hijack but I don't know how to search for content but has Ken Ryan been on at all lately? He worked with my wife's uncle at Hinsdale or knew him I thought . I think he lived in NY, possibly not really far away from me 

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40 minutes ago, bitty said:

Yes he was awesome also but unfortunately he has disappeared from here ....

Not to hijack but I don't know how to search for content but has Ken Ryan been on at all lately? He worked with my wife's uncle at Hinsdale or knew him I thought . I think he lived in NY, possibly not really far away from me 

@Ken Ryan

IMG_0367.png

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