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New member needs help with 450 hydraulics


railguy

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I have a hydraulic leak on the priority valve/power steering block "I think that's what it's called". Also the control valve column was broken it was brazed  but didn't hold and the steering bracket was wrong so the hood didn't fit right. While I had it apart I thought I would replace the column . when I received the new used column it had a "plug" in it that the broken one didn't have the parts book or manual says nothing about it. I thought maybe it was for a tractor without power steering but that doesn't explain it not being in the parts book. Would like to know what it's for be fore putting it back together. I am attaching pics any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

railguy

IMG_20230610_175909.jpg

IMG_20230610_175953.jpg

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Welcome to the forum!

I have encountered that plug on occasion; It definitely has to do with whether or not it has power steering.  I thought it was on the ones that had factory power steering, but it has been a long time since I have worked on one, so I am not sure.

Red Tech

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I just looked it up.  The plug is part # 364880R1.  It is pictured with the power steering under the "attachments" section.  It is shown by the valve instead of the casting, so it is a little confusing.  Google the part number to verify.  Only used with factory power steering.

Red Tech. 

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Ok, that's why I missed it the plug should be in the mateing  hole but would do the same thing either way. If it would have been right then I would have not received it with the column  and put it together with out it. The power steering wasn't acting quit right.  That's so much good luck its a wonder I services it.

Thanks any more info will be appreciated

railguy

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With the factory priority valve the plug needs to be there for power steering to work correctly. Hose from priority valve goes to inlet of steering unit and return hose from unit goes to a tee located at drain for reservoir. Control valve to steering column is different than ones without the priority valve and has the one center opening to front side for U shaped pipe attaching. 

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1 hour ago, railguy said:

Do u have a pic? Or drawing ? I was thinking instead of the plug inside which is hard to get to wouldn't it be easier to re move the u shaped pipe and plugs it externally?

railguy

Not sure but think if you do that. The only time steering works is when you put an auxiliary on pressure.

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1 hour ago, railguy said:

The casting number on the regulating block if that's the right name is 364844R1 so if is that right . I know very little about hydraulics.

 

20230615_122705.jpg

Yes a priority housing and regulator block. Also a safety relief for PS. Block will have two openings for U shaped line and for line to steering unit. Heads up a lot of those are worn enough for power steering to be weak. 

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1 hour ago, DWV said:

Yes a priority housing and regulator block. Also a safety relief for PS. Block will have two openings for U shaped line and for line to steering unit. Heads up a lot of those are worn enough for power steering to be weak. 

All it takes to correct is to enlarge orifice in flow divider spool.

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Ok I Was just looking at it And it looks like without the plug Pressure Would be bypassing the Regulating block. Is that right?  The u shaped pipe Is that pressure or a return. If i sound like I'm 2nd guessing you or doubting you I'm not I'm just trying to understand how this works. And ifThe U. shaped pipe Is a return It would be sending pressure To the U. shaped pipe?

No wonder The power steering and hydraulics were acting funny.

Thanks

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Lemme throw another wrench in the works -- the valves are closed center on that tractor, with a signal port to operate the unloader valve

Usually the flow regulator spool gets worn out in the bore -- have to replace the complete valve -- or have a spool made by a machine shop

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1 hour ago, HydroTek said:

Lemme throw another wrench in the works -- the valves are closed center on that tractor, with a signal port to operate the unloader valve

Usually the flow regulator spool gets worn out in the bore -- have to replace the complete valve -- or have a spool made by a machine shop

They are open center I think.... 

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3 hours ago, railguy said:

Ok I Was just looking at it And it looks like without the plug Pressure Would be bypassing the Regulating block. Is that right?  The u shaped pipe Is that pressure or a return. If i sound like I'm 2nd guessing you or doubting you I'm not I'm just trying to understand how this works. And ifThe U. shaped pipe Is a return It would be sending pressure To the U. shaped pipe?

No wonder The power steering and hydraulics were acting funny.

Thanks

To far in the past I traced the passages to learn where they went. Think I remember this but don't take as gospel. The U pipe is pressure to the control valves and connects to the port that's plugged. Other large hole in steering support is return from control valves. Small port is regulator port to valves.  Plug is not used with manual steering block and pressure from pump goes to regulator and valves. Since the hydraulics were used before power steering was offered a reroute of pressure was needed for priority steering pressure so passage was blocked between valves and regulator so when pressure from pump went though block and not to block and valves like no power steering setup.

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I don't know what most of that is or means.

But, I just found the plug in my parts book. It is with the power steering diagram in the attachments sec. As Red Tech said. It's called a "lift circuit block plug".

Now can anyone tell me what fluid to put in it that won't eat ,swell,or dissolve seals that r 65 plus years old.

Also I noticed that in my parts book that there's a "P" ahead of alot of the parts any idea what it means.

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1 hour ago, railguy said:

I don't know what most of that is or means.

But, I just found the plug in my parts book. It is with the power steering diagram in the attachments sec. As Red Tech said. It's called a "lift circuit block plug".

Now can anyone tell me what fluid to put in it that won't eat ,swell,or dissolve seals that r 65 plus years old.

Also I noticed that in my parts book that there's a "P" ahead of alot of the parts any idea what it means.

Take it from me if you have it this far apart put in new seals in every single place because there is no magic snake oil fix for 65-year-old rubber parts! 

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Yeah, you're right, And if I knew wha I bought an old International.t I was Doing that's what I do.

But I think I would make things worse. I want to get it back together and if it works. All right, and doesn't leak much. I'm going to leave alone.

 I bought an old International 46 Baler For a project, I'll post about it later. When I get this straightened.

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