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TD14 dozer runs on gas but won't swap over to Diesel. Injector and pump questions


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So I picked up an old 1958? TD14 from an old farmer who passed away.  my Father in law and I fired it right up on gas no problem, walked it on the trailer in gas mode, no smoke or blow by that i can tell.  When i tried to fire it on diesel, it just died.  I replaced filters, bled everything and no fuel out of pump.  pulled the plunger out of the pump housing cleaned and put back in now getting fuel to the injectors.  To this point almost everything I have looked at has been pretty sludged and gummed up.  So now I have a few questions before I head into the unknown......

1.  does anyone know what pressure i should be getting at the injectors? just looking at the squirt when i loosen the bleed bolt it seems a bit weak, lots of volume coming out, but hard to tell really until i put a pressure test on things.

2. I saw on another thread some home made injector pullers.  As this dozer is currently sitting on my new property that we plan on moving to (5 hours away) does anyone have a part number so I can order one or accurate measurements for me to make the tool here in my shop before i drive 5 hours to go pull the injectors?

3.  I have my ultrasonic cleaner in my shop trailer at the property so I planned to pull the injectors and clean them on site and throw them back in.  I am assuming clean and polish is fairly straight forward? Also hoping they should at that point work?  Is there any parts or bits i should take with me?  

4. when doing the injectors (I have never pulled any...ever) do I need to ream the seats or get copper washers or anything like that? do i put never seize in the hole when i put them back in?

As mentioned I live 5 hours away from my new property, the property is another 2 hours from a major town and I foolishly left the manuals I bought in my shop trailer out there.  Any help and preparations the group can suggest would be greatly appreciated!

Last question.  Does anyone know what size rad cap I need.  It was missing and I forgot to get a measurement.

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I think the pressure they opened was around 800 or maybe 1200 psi, they are low pressure comparatively. 

Loosen the nuts slightly holding them down and fire it on gas and see if the injectors release, you have way less combustion pressure in gas mode vs diesel but worth a try

Before you try any of that while it's running on gas advance the throttle position a bit, this primes your diesel side and can start injecting a bit of diesel while it's running, watch the stack for color change, good luck, make sure the cooling system is full and idle down on diesel for a good period to cool down after use to avoid problems

This one has a PNW flair?

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2 hours ago, McCormick 40 said:

The pictured one looks like a TD-9 to me.

...something odd about it..in respect of being called a TD14...I can only see one carrier roller.....one could have been lost along the way.....but it looks way to small ,relative to those cans etc  ..for a '14'

Mike

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5 hours ago, mike newman said:

...something odd about it..in respect of being called a TD14...I can only see one carrier roller.....one could have been lost along the way.....but it looks way to small ,relative to those cans etc  ..for a '14'

Mike

I tend to agree with Mike and McCormick40. Looks like a TD9 to me, too. Pre 1956 with that air breather setup.

I see a can of ether quick start. Wouldn't recommend it for these old beasts. 

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Thanks guys!!! I was not using the ether to start.  I tried a squirt when i swapped it on diesel,  making sure it would actually run on that position as I am not familiar with these engines at all.  It did fire when swapped over but only on ether not the diesel.  I will not do it any more, nor does it seem to need it for starting as it flashes right up.
 

As for calling it at td9, vs td14 i have only owned it for 2 weeks and am only going on what the old farmer (who is passed away) his buddy told me.  I will take another look when i am out there next weekend and look for some serial numbers or identifiers. And take some better pictures. 

 

Hard tail,  what do you mean PNW flair?

Also when i swapped over, easing the diesel throttle up i did notice a slight colour change but not consistently and not to the extent i thought i would expect.  
 

I hosed down all the fittings with penetrating oil last weekend just to make life easier moving forward.  On number three cylinder it looked like it was slightly bubbling at the injector when running.  That is why i was also curious about the seals and injector cups and removing them.  
 

thanks to all of you.  I will do some more digging and see what i can find!!  I feel like a 10 year old playing in the sandbox with this thing lol:)
 

 

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It does look more TD9 sized, those era machines that came out of the pacific northwest had that styling, but that matters little.

I forgot to say I would leave the precups in place they can be extremely stubborn to remove and usually not the problem, once the injector is out it should give you a visual 

Are you certain the return line is clear in the injection pump and you are returning fuel fine? 

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I just watched a couple videos and mine definitely doesnt smoke like that when changing over.  Im really thinking its the injectors now.  

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inj_puller.jpg.8cbf26ee10b7e5889c34d6dda121badb.jpgI think the injectors are lapped when rebuilding, I'll see if I can find a diagram for the pulling plate, there's not much to it, being you went into the pump are you sure it went back together ok? Unfortunately I just have a picture not the dimensions but you get the idea, maybe the rack is stuck in the pump?

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I had trouble getting our TD6 to fire on diesel, had diesel to injectors I’d kick it over and it would puff and die. Did you check all the fuel lines? As for damage or pinholes? Our problem turned out to be a pinhole in one of the fuel lines. 

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From the tank forward I had a basic look at the fuel lines, the look ok.  When I opened the bleed on top of the second filter while running, fuel shoots 6 feet in the air.  I will look deeper for pin holes but i dont think there is.
 I have not checked the return line yet, and will look at that this weekend.  
 

the pump gauge comes up and does not have a psi on it when i first started this process it would barely move but now is up in the “operating range” after all my cleaning and dorking.  
 

The “rack” which i read about in a few of the treads on here is i assume to be the gear behind the plunger pump?   It was moving freely.  But i flushed and cleaned it all out none the less.  When i did the pump, i pulled it apart as far as i could go without fully removing the entire pump. So basically the plunger pump and a good spray out with brake clean  ( my current workbench is the top of my brushmower in the grass with a tarp on it to keep my parts clean.  So a full tear down in our camper may puss off the wife and mean me sleeping under the stars 🤪.


hard tail,  what do you mean by the injectors are lapped?  Should i take some valve lapping compound and see about re-seating the injectors?  Any clarity or thoughts on what parts and how much i should lap would be appreciated!! 

i am heading out there on Friday to give her another go this weekend.  I will hopefully be able to post a video of me pushing dirt, but if not i will send one of fuel spray and smoke when i change it over.

thanks for all the ideas!  

 

 

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Also, looking at the pics i took, it seems to be a 6.25 litre 4 cylinder motor.  I looked online but it doesnt seem to match up to the 14a or the td 9.  Any thoughts?  

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The 6.25l stamp is on the injector side up top on the head near the front of motor.  As mentioned before, i will get more pics this weekend.

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Qball, measure the gauge of the tracks (center to center) TD6 narrow gauge is 40 inches, wide gauge is 50 inches, TD9 narrow is 44 inches, wide gauge is 60 inches, TD14 narrow is 56 inches, wide gauge is 74 inches.

I'm thinking it's a TD9 wide gauge.

 

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 ,per the other discussion, as 1st photo, it doesnt sit high enough to be a 14?

would drive on gas to better accommodations, confirm fuel at bleeders...and go with "flipper" and other linkages .

cant do it from here ....but fuel, compression (usually lacking) and helper it would be running.

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On 6/12/2023 at 6:57 PM, hector gemme said:

Try to get the fuel injector pump  parts number if it is  65309 --

Yes fuel pump 65309 DA201 i didnt find the serial number on the actual tractor but am pretty sure td9 now.  One step closer!  Last time out i left the fuel on and the lower end of the pump is full of diesel😢.  I heard this is common when fuel is left on?  

 

Louis Figone, I didnt have time to work on her but did measure the tracks.  Looks like I have a wide gauge model 60” center to center.  It was 78” outside to outside on the tracks with a 114” wide blade

i am taking holidays beginning july and am going to spend 10 days out at my property and getting her running.  
 

also i am missing the two from idler/track rollers…. Like the whole assembly.  On both sides of the dozer.  Does anyone know where a guy might find them.  How essential are they really?

 

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Regarding the top idlers, is the shaft (1) in the guide (14), is the guide intact to the point you can put a shaft in it? I would want both top idlers in place and operating. This is a parts page for the TD9-92, the older TD9 is similar, you can run the later idlers on the early TD9's. Let's hope a previous owner did not cut the guides.

 

IH TD9-92 Track frame.jpg

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