Weight transfer hitch

[Big Bud guy]

 

So how exactly did these things work?  I get the jest that they were suppose to do for drawn implements what the Harry Ferguson 3-point with its depth control did for mounted implements.  But how did it work?  When the going got tough did the WTH just raise up a little lifting the front of the implement?  Or was the WTH tied in with the lift cylinders on the implement so that it sent a signal to raise the implement?  It appears to me that’s how the AC version worked.  

[Sledgehammer]

Not trying to be a wise guy here but my guess is. Very poorly at best. If they worked well I think you would see more around probably. The concept is a good one for the size of equipment and the time period but I doubt it served much purpose when it really came time to work. Just my $.02

[Big Bud guy]

3 minutes ago, Sledgehammer said:

Not trying to be a wise guy here but my guess is. Very poorly at best. If they worked well I think you would see more around probably. The concept is a good one for the size of equipment and the time period but I doubt it served much purpose when it really came time to work. Just my $.02

Thanks.  But I’m asking how they worked.  Not how well they worked.  Both JD and AC advertised you could reduce or even go without ballast on tractors with this type of of hitch.  I’m just having trouble visualizing how it transfers weight to the rear tires with a drawn implement. 

[iowaboy1965]

I assume it's using the draft control from the 3 point hitch somehow. When harder pull sensed if the draft control tried to raise the hitch against the pull a bit it would transfer weight to the tires. I'm having trouble visualizing how the 3 point would sense the increased draft as well. It doesn't seem like you would get much transfer from a trailing implement or its amount of pull or draft.

[iowaboy1965]

Ok looking closer at the green set up I see there is a top bar from the hitch to the implement adding more   geometry to the deal. That must pivot the hitch frame somehow to actuate the draft control......never seen one but would be interesting to find one and do a field trial.... but I'm confused by the hy cylinder....maybe it is actuated by the twisting forces....ok I'm more confused now than when I started looking. 😐 

[Mudfly]

Could you have the draft sensing circuit divert from the 3 point lift cylinder to the lift cylinder on a disk/harrow/trailer plow, etc?

I don’t know so much about the weight transfer aspect, but as draft increased you could have the draft sensing hydraulic circuit lift/lower the implement to keep a constant load on the drawbar.

 

[Sledgehammer]

  Hitch moved father back which adds more tongue weight to the rear of the tractor.  The lift arms act like traction bars and spread load across the whole rear of the machine which acts the same as having more weight on the rear of the machine. The fancy gauge reads pressure applied to the extra cylinder to make you feel good about what you just spent extra money on.  More pressure should mean more weight on the rear of the machine.  

I was not trying to change the subject but I still don’t think it was much more than smoke and mirrors to sell an “option” that would no doubt be harder on the rear end of the machine due to extra leverage used to create your fake weight. 

[nomorejohndeere]

Take your implement to the field and disconnect the upper link 

Pull it and watch what happens when you hit hard soil

It's not lift/lower it's a control over the length of the upper link....more of a rotate...

Most descriptions I've read claim the systems work very well....but were not understood well/involved to figure out the correct setup/lack of practice and patience so most users abandoned trying.  

As mentioned they were mostly intended for smaller implements of the time period and never really kept up with much larger requirements that were dealt with in other ways....fluid in tires, dual wheels, fwa, 4x4 etc that just uses brute force and weight.

[int 504]

The John Deere had a diverter valve which transferred hyd pressure from the rockshaft to the hyd cylinder hooked to the upper arm linkage on the hitch mimicking a 3 pt and rotating the implement and maintaining constant draft and traction according to their advertising. A 3 pt with draft control seems simpler. Draft control on my 504 works.

[Big Bud guy]

Stolen off of eBay.  

[Mr. Plow]

Making the vertical hitch point rigid and adding a hydraulic sensing element to the implement hitch allows the top link draft sensing element to raise the hitch and transfer weight to the rear wheels like a 3pt implement. 

IH used lower link sensing and had a similar hitch for trailing plows that used a bullet shaped hitch coupler. 

Lots of restrictions on those systems and adding vertical rigidity to the drawbar of trailing implements couldn't have been easy on the implement. 

 

[vtfireman85]

Our D14 has a gauge on the dash that says “Traction Boost” , I assumed it was an Allis thing, maybe not? 

[Mr. Plow]

Notice the rigid AC hitch and the brace from the top of the JD hitch (cut off in photo) down to the trailing implement tongue.....it is necessary to fix the implement tongue  to the 3pt to allow the draft control to work

[snoshoe]

I know nothing about either system except what I see in the pictures here. So I 'm just as wrong as everybody else.

 On the green one I see lower link sensing controlling an upper link cylinder. The bar we can't see where it goes has to attach to trailed imp. When that cylinder retracts it trys to lift imp. That would transfer a lot of weight without actually lifting the imp.

The orange one I see what appears to be an oversize sleeve hitch. Conjecture on my part but I guess draft sensing is that snap coupler which I assume this drawbar attaches to. Result is it tries to lift whole imp. The way I see it both systems probably increase traction but probably don't reduce draft much. Which means it probably stops the wheels from spinning but doesn't mean you can pull it.

[Mark (EC,IN)]

I remember an ad in a Farm Magazine back in the 50s that explained how a traction booster setup worked,   it was either an AC or a Massey Ferguson ad but I can't remember which.

The ad had a drawing of a small platform scale,  with a man standing on the scale, and a 100# sack of feed beside the scale.

First, they weighed the man,  then had the man start to pick up the sack and they showed how,  before the feed sack left the ground,  that man became heavier.

They said it was the same on a tractor.... when the arms try to lift the plow it makes the tractor heavier even before the plow actually raises (your plowing depth stayed the same).

When they use pull-type implements,  a special hitch is actually hooked to the tractor's three-point arms,  and the implement is hooked to the hitch also....it was set up so the three-point arms tried to lift the implement hitch,  thus transferring weight to the tractor.  What actually happened is the draft point of the implement is a higher point on the tractor....like hooking a log chain to the third link on a quick hitch....just not as dangerous.

I never saw one of the pull-type implement hitches in real life,  but I do know the traction booster deals on three-point worked.....it's how an Allis WD45 could plow with a Farmall M......put a straight pull-type plow on the AC and it was helpless.

[Mudfly]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Plow said:

Notice the rigid AC hitch and the brace from the top of the JD hitch (cut off in photo) down to the trailing implement tongue.....it is necessary to fix the implement tongue  to the 3pt to allow the draft control to work

The link down to the trailing implement was the piece I missed.  Essentially it turns it into a mounted implement.  Now that makes sense for weight transfer.

 

[Big Bud guy]

3 hours ago, Mr. Plow said:

Notice the rigid AC hitch and the brace from the top of the JD hitch (cut off in photo) down to the trailing implement tongue.....it is necessary to fix the implement tongue  to the 3pt to allow the draft control to work

 

 

Here is the best picture I have.  I guess that explains why they say you need a rigid hitch for this to work. 

[Big Bud guy]

2 hours ago, Mark (EC,IN) said:

I remember an ad in a Farm Magazine back in the 50s that explained how a traction booster setup worked,   it was either an AC or a Massey Ferguson ad but I can't remember which.

The ad had a drawing of a small platform scale,  with a man standing on the scale, and a 100# sack of feed beside the scale.

First, they weighed the man,  then had the man start to pick up the sack and they showed how,  before the feed sack left the ground,  that man became heavier.

 

That and what Mr. Plow posted solves it for me.  

[mijohn]

Massy Ferguson had the also about the time of the 165, 1100 and 1130. john

[acem]

I've seen one in the owners manual for an ih disk. I'll have to look...

Never seen one in person.

[acem]

Here's a pic from fleabay.

[Red_Man]

Oliver had a similar hitch for the 770 and 880, I'm not sure if it was available on the later models or not. 

[Big Bud guy]

18 minutes ago, acem said:

Here's a pic from fleabay.

 

Nice.  I didn’t know IH offered a WTH.  Looks like it was a fad everybody got into at one point.  

[IH Forever]

51 minutes ago, acem said:

Here's a pic from fleabay.

Thanks for posting. I knew I had something from IH in my literature but hadn’t taken time to look.

[Mr. Plow]

IH was easier to deal with because of the lower link draft sensing......others with upper link sensing needed the extra hydraulic valve/cylinder stuff...