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125C/E/G loader differences


hseII

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17 hours ago, hseII said:

Are there component cross overs between the 125C & 125E?

 

Are the internals the same, just updated?, or are there significant differences between the 2?

I looked at & walked a 100E around on a yard today but have decided it’s a bit short on weight & power.

 

5B008155-1EFF-4864-8CF5-8CE8A9ADEE35.jpeg

That is a tidy looking machine. I wouldn't necessarily pass on it for a larger machine. If you want an old IH tracked machine, condition is everything, as many parts are NLA. Its not like buying a junked out common wheel tractor knowing that everything for it is available aftermarket. 

I too once wanted an IH tracked machine...considered a nice TD6 pretty hard...wound up with a newer Deere. Parts support is so much better. Im IH all the way but track machines are buyer beware. One major failure with an NLA part relegates that lovely machine to the fencerow or scrapyard. Sad but true.

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The third gear issue would concern me too. There isn't really any linkage to be an issue, under the shifter is the shift valve. Probably require pulling trans. At least its probably the smaller transmission.

Screenshot2023-04-02151342.jpg.6e1dc8ace738f973c3ea489ec35d2412.jpg

Here are the advertised cycle times for a 125E. Never ran a CAT so I have no comparison. I am about your age and I have noticed most modern equipment will run circles around my IH stuff, but if I compare apples to apples my IH stuff is pretty on par for the era. I'm usually not in a huge hurry anyway.

When IH sold the PayLine division to Dresser in 1982 they only got the Libertyville, IL plant(old Frank G. Hough plant). The IH crawlers were built at Melrose Park, IL plant, and IH kept that facility. So Dresser had crawler production outsourced to Hyundai of Korea. I believe later it was switched to HSW of Poland(now Dressta) who was building them already under license for Europe. The Korean built ones were made to the original spec so should be the same, although I have never ran one.

IH built some machines abroad even before the Dresser acquisition. The smaller Payloaders like my 510 were built in Japan in a joint venture with Komatsu called KIMCO. There was also some Canadian built machines to get around some import requirements. Excavators built in France.

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3 hours ago, Binderdan said:

The third gear issue would concern me too. There isn't really any linkage to be an issue, under the shifter is the shift valve. Probably require pulling trans. At least its probably the smaller transmission.

Screenshot2023-04-02151342.jpg.6e1dc8ace738f973c3ea489ec35d2412.jpg

Here are the advertised cycle times for a 125E. Never ran a CAT so I have no comparison. I am about your age and I have noticed most modern equipment will run circles around my IH stuff, but if I compare apples to apples my IH stuff is pretty on par for the era. I'm usually not in a huge hurry anyway.

When IH sold the PayLine division to Dresser in 1982 they only got the Libertyville, IL plant(old Frank G. Hough plant). The IH crawlers were built at Melrose Park, IL plant, and IH kept that facility. So Dresser had crawler production outsourced to Hyundai of Korea. I believe later it was switched to HSW of Poland(now Dressta) who was building them already under license for Europe. The Korean built ones were made to the original spec so should be the same, although I have never ran one.

IH built some machines abroad even before the Dresser acquisition. The smaller Payloaders like my 510 were built in Japan in a joint venture with Komatsu called KIMCO. There was also some Canadian built machines to get around some import requirements. Excavators built in France.

Awesome Details. They Matter.

 


I’m favoring a G series if I can find one as we’ve got a 4BT in storage if something should ever go astray with the engine.

So the Later Es & Gs were probably built in Korea? Hmmm.

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4 hours ago, TN Hillbilly said:

That is a tidy looking machine. I wouldn't necessarily pass on it for a larger machine. If you want an old IH tracked machine, condition is everything, as many parts are NLA. Its not like buying a junked out common wheel tractor knowing that everything for it is available aftermarket. 

I too once wanted an IH tracked machine...considered a nice TD6 pretty hard...wound up with a newer Deere. Parts support is so much better. Im IH all the way but track machines are buyer beware. One major failure with an NLA part relegates that lovely machine to the fencerow or scrapyard. Sad but true.

My cousin has a TD8H with 11,xxx hrs.

He gets his parts at TEC in Atlanta & so far they’ve had everything he’s ever needed. Not to say they will forever, but he has done some major work recently & told me he’d buy another one in a minute if he could find it: he loves his.

That has been the typical review I’ve found when asking about the E-H series machines.

Thank You.

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Basic operating weight of a 125E (no rippers(extra 1,100 lbs), no 4 in 1 bucket(extra 1,250)) is 20,000 lbs.

I haul my 100C on my tandem dual wheel gooseneck trailer. My 100C only weighs 16K but my trailer is rated for 26K, and works fine for local moves. Not sure how DOT would feel about my single wheel F-350 pulling it though. Truck ~7,000 lbs + Trailer 7,500 lbs + 100C 16,000 lbs = ~30,500 lbs.

Way less scary than hauling my TD-14A. Not doing that again! Lol!

20201108_100640.thumb.jpg.aeacd745af8b5cf3738ab04b1a897bb1.jpg

How much does your 12 ton trailer weigh?

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13 hours ago, hseII said:

My cousin has a TD8H with 11,xxx hrs.

He gets his parts at TEC in Atlanta & so far they’ve had everything he’s ever needed. Not to say they will forever, but he has done some major work recently & told me he’d buy another one in a minute if he could find it: he loves his.

That has been the typical review I’ve found when asking about the E-H series machines.

Thank You.

Understand. I was mainly thinking of the older series machines with my comments on NLA parts. 

Actually, wife's uncle had a TD7 or 8 dozer that he kept a couple years. It was labeled Dressta, so a newer series I guess. He had good luck with it while he owned it.

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12 hours ago, Binderdan said:

Basic operating weight of a 125E (no rippers(extra 1,100 lbs), no 4 in 1 bucket(extra 1,250)) is 20,000 lbs.

I haul my 100C on my tandem dual wheel gooseneck trailer. My 100C only weighs 16K but my trailer is rated for 26K, and works fine for local moves. Not sure how DOT would feel about my single wheel F-350 pulling it though. Truck ~7,000 lbs + Trailer 7,500 lbs + 100C 16,000 lbs = ~30,500 lbs.

Way less scary than hauling my TD-14A. Not doing that again! Lol!

20201108_100640.thumb.jpg.aeacd745af8b5cf3738ab04b1a897bb1.jpg

How much does your 12 ton trailer weigh?

Im

looking at 2 different ones- #1 is 24k lbs gross & #2 is 29,000 lbs gross, 24,000lb load weight. I’m leaning towards #2 as #1 weighs 6k lbs so I’d have to hope I could get 4k on the tongue to be legal.

Or just get the right trailer to begin  With. 

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Reference to your earlier posting, about changing the motor (that was my posting), I converted the DT239 to a 4BT Cummins. I had to make all of the conversion plates, rebuild the motor and make new motor brackets to install it into my machine. The 4BT has a turbo charge on it, Yippie More power.

Spent about $7,500 by the time I got it done. Depends on your point of view, Yes it was worth it.

The old motor was direct mounted to the frame, so we had to mount the 4BT in there the same way, ( No rubber motor Mounts). There was no way to get a rubber mount in the 2" space between the motor block and the frame. So the machine Vibrates like ****, (because the 4BT motor does not have a balancer like the DT239 motor has). I had to extend the Fan coupler, so the fan would be closer to the fan shroud of the radiator, to properly draw air flow. Had to modify the throttle linkage, reroute the electrical wiring, fuel lines, extend the oil fill tube and dipstick to the top of the machine, and make a new door opening on the the top of the hood for the oil fill and dipstick. Along with other modifications to the machine.

Reference to an earlier posting, My TD8 has plenty of power. It out pushes our other dozers.

Reference to an earlier posting, Yes, it's slower that the newer dozers, but it can push like there's no tomorrow. We had to add a plate on top of the blade, (see picture) to help keep the dirt from coming over the top of the blade. But it still isn't high enough, the dirt still comes over the blade. The operator has to pay attention when pushing anything, because the dozer keeps pushing.

The DT239 motor was rebuilt the last time with a new crank, all new bearings, Rings, Gaskets.  After we installed in back in the dozer, after about 8 hours, we heard a rattling noise, After removing the engine, we discovered that the crank balancer was cracked and I couldn't find another one, It was running when I pulled it back out. So we decided to change the motor. Now the old motor is now stored in a box in the warehouse. I wish I find a new home for it.

Needles to say the machine is powerful and Still wants to work.

My 2 cents worth.

20230405_075441.jpg

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13 hours ago, scoutring said:

Reference to your earlier posting, about changing the motor (that was my posting), I converted the DT239 to a 4BT Cummins. I had to make all of the conversion plates, rebuild the motor and make new motor brackets to install it into my machine. The 4BT has a turbo charge on it, Yippie More power.

Spent about $7,500 by the time I got it done. Depends on your point of view, Yes it was worth it.

The old motor was direct mounted to the frame, so we had to mount the 4BT in there the same way, ( No rubber motor Mounts). There was no way to get a rubber mount in the 2" space between the motor block and the frame. So the machine Vibrates like ****, (because the 4BT motor does not have a balancer like the DT239 motor has). I had to extend the Fan coupler, so the fan would be closer to the fan shroud of the radiator, to properly draw air flow. Had to modify the throttle linkage, reroute the electrical wiring, fuel lines, extend the oil fill tube and dipstick to the top of the machine, and make a new door opening on the the top of the hood for the oil fill and dipstick. Along with other modifications to the machine.

Reference to an earlier posting, My TD8 has plenty of power. It out pushes our other dozers.

Reference to an earlier posting, Yes, it's slower that the newer dozers, but it can push like there's no tomorrow. We had to add a plate on top of the blade, (see picture) to help keep the dirt from coming over the top of the blade. But it still isn't high enough, the dirt still comes over the blade. The operator has to pay attention when pushing anything, because the dozer keeps pushing.

The DT239 motor was rebuilt the last time with a new crank, all new bearings, Rings, Gaskets.  After we installed in back in the dozer, after about 8 hours, we heard a rattling noise, After removing the engine, we discovered that the crank balancer was cracked and I couldn't find another one, It was running when I pulled it back out. So we decided to change the motor. Now the old motor is now stored in a box in the warehouse. I wish I find a new home for it.

Needles to say the machine is powerful and Still wants to work.

My 2 cents worth.

20230405_075441.jpg

Thank You.

 

That’s a wealth of information. Where are you located?

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My understanding-

The serial number break of 9500 brought about the “smaller”transmission that had a longer driveshaft- this allowed for the transmission to be removed in the later machines without having to move the engine forward.

Again, my understanding is the below 9500 machines, there is a separate dipstick for the torque converter & transmission, where as above the 9500 machines there is not?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/5/2023 at 6:02 PM, mmi said:

At least here Ih balancers dont seem to make it to 3 reinstalls.

IIRC the 4bt could be had with balancer for certain aps as they are quite wobbly , 1/2 the 6 would have made more sense

The 6 is too big (long) to fit in the dozer. I only had to extend the fan 2 inches to get proper air flow for the radiator.

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Mine has the short driveshaft. when I made the motor mounts for the 4BT, I had to measure the center of the crankshaft to the center of the motor mount of the old motor and convert that to the same measurement of the new motor, to keep the alignment of the crank the same, (front and rear of the motor) .

I measured the center of the driveshaft to the bottom of the block, of the old motor,  then did the same on the 4BT. The difference of those measurements, was then applied to the rear motor mount measurement, up - down with the same measurement to rear of the adapter plate face of the 4BT.

I made a jig that I used to locate the proper location of the rear motor mounts on the 4BT. I used the same info to locate the front mount, after making new side brackets, and welding them to the front cross member, that I cut off the old motor mount.

See pic for the Jigs that I make to get the proper alignment for the motor mounts, front and rear. The long bar is what I measured from to locate the mount location for the front's proper alignment of the crankshaft.

The jig bolted to the rear side of the adapter plate. Measurements were taken from the rear plate side forward on the upper bar for the rear mount, and the lower bar for the front mount location.
 

Motor Jigs.jpg.jpg

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Just now, scoutring said:

Mine has the short driveshaft. when I made the motor mounts for the 4BT, I had to measure the center of the crankshaft to the center of the motor mount of the old motor and convert that to the same measurement of the new motor, to keep the alignment of the crank the same, (front and rear of the motor) .

I measured the center of the driveshaft to the bottom of the block, of the old motor,  then did the same on the 4BT. The difference of those measurements, was then applied to the rear motor mount measurement, up - down with the same measurement to rear of the adapter plate face of the 4BT.

I made a jig that I used to locate the proper location of the rear motor mounts on the 4BT. I used the same info to locate the front mount, after making new side brackets, and welding them to the front cross member, that I cut off the old motor mount.

See pic for the Jigs that I make to get the proper alignment for the motor mounts, front and rear. The long bar is what I measured from to locate the mount location for the front's proper alignment of the crankshaft.

The jig bolted to the rear side of the adapter plate. Measurements were taken from the rear plate side forward on the upper bar for the rear mount, and the lower bar for the front mount location.
 

Motor Jigs.jpg.jpg

The white marks is were the mounts finally ended up being located for the proper measurements from the rear adapter plate.

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