125C/E/G loader differences

[hseII]

Long time reader first time poster.

I am interested in a smaller loader to clean up around the farm & have found a few 125s, 1 C model, a few E models, & supposedly a 125G, which has my heart.

I am trying to get in touch with the seller but in the mean time, 

Besides the DT-239 issues, what else would be of concern with a C or E model?

How much commonality are there between the C models & the E models?

The C has engine issues & there is a thread on the archives here where a gentleman repowered a TD8E with a 4BT- that interest me but the photos are gone.

Thanks in Advance.

[Binderdan]

While I don't know all the differences, I do know a few. But there really doesn't seem to be a lot. In fact they even share the same chassis service manuals.

Not sure what "engine issues" you are referring to but all the 100C/E 125C/E and TD-7C/E TD-8C/E use the same family of IH Neuss engines, used in AG tractors even into late 90s. The later 1985ish and later Dresser E series machines and beyond used the Cummins 4B and 4BT engines. I believe a lot of the complaints about the IH engines were caused by misunderstanding or neglect, but that's just my opinion. They used to sell a retrofit kit for them to convert earlier machines to the Cummins after IH stopped supplying engines to Dresser after the sale of the AG division to Case IH. These kits are long gone but if you can find a parts machine it can be done. The earlier E series used the IH DT-239 and contrary to what the flat billed hat wearing, Monster Energy Drink drinking, Dodge bro-dozer driving Cummins guy would say, the DT-239 in the 125E is a solid engine and even has replaceable liners unlike the Cummins.  External engine stuff is a little harder to find but its still out there. If you can find a machine that already has the Cummins its way cheaper than converting, and I believe you get a little more power too.

At some point there was a transmission change in the later IH built E series machines. Some refer to it as big vs small transmission. The later ones were smaller and from my understanding slightly improved. One way to identify them is the smaller later transmission uses a drive shaft between the torque converter and transmission input, while the older large transmission drive shaft is so short its basically 2 U-joints stacked together. The longer shaft on the newer ones provides enough room to pull the transmission without having to move the engine forward to remove.

I am not familiar with the G model differences.

The C models were older, from around 1969 to 1973. As I recall the 125C wasn't turbocharged, just a NA D-239 engine. Other than engine upgrades, the transmission upgrade, and some cosmetic changes I have not found a lot of differences in the C to E series 100C/E, 125C/E, TD-7C/E, TD-8C/E machines. I'm sure someone will come along with some more input.

I recently purchased a 100C track loader for about scrap price. I have been researching parts availability and its been better than I anticipated, although not plentiful. The key to finding parts is using the part numbers out of your IH parts manual and searching by numbers. Searching by application will get you very little results. From what I have seen so far many parts interchange between the Cs and Es.

Good luck on your quest to find a machine!

 

[hseII]

Thank You

[hseII]

22 minutes ago, Binderdan said:

While I don't know all the differences, I do know a few. But there really doesn't seem to be a lot. In fact they even share the same chassis service manuals.

Not sure what "engine issues" you are referring to but all the 100C/E 125C/E and TD-7C/E TD-8C/E use the same family of IH Neuss engines, used in AG tractors even into late 90s. The later 1985ish and later Dresser E series machines and beyond used the Cummins 4B and 4BT engines. I believe a lot of the complaints about the IH engines were caused by misunderstanding or neglect, but that's just my opinion. They used to sell a retrofit kit for them to convert earlier machines to the Cummins after IH stopped supplying engines to Dresser after the sale of the AG division to Case IH. These kits are long gone but if you can find a parts machine it can be done. The earlier E series used the IH DT-239 and contrary to what the flat billed hat wearing, Monster Energy Drink drinking, Dodge bro-dozer driving Cummins guy would say, the DT-239 in the 125E is a solid engine and even has replaceable liners unlike the Cummins.  External engine stuff is a little harder to find but its still out there. If you can find a machine that already has the Cummins its way cheaper than converting, and I believe you get a little more power too.

At some point there was a transmission change in the later IH built E series machines. Some refer to it as big vs small transmission. The later ones were smaller and from my understanding slightly improved. One way to identify them is the smaller later transmission uses a drive shaft between the torque converter and transmission input, while the older large transmission drive shaft is so short its basically 2 U-joints stacked together. The longer shaft on the newer ones provides enough room to pull the transmission without having to move the engine forward to remove.

I am not familiar with the G model differences.

The C models were older, from around 1969 to 1973. As I recall the 125C wasn't turbocharged, just a NA D-239 engine. Other than engine upgrades, the transmission upgrade, and some cosmetic changes I have not found a lot of differences in the C to E series 100C/E, 125C/E, TD-7C/E, TD-8C/E machines. I'm sure someone will come along with some more input.

I recently purchased a 100C track loader for about scrap price. I have been researching parts availability and its been better than I anticipated, although not plentiful. The key to finding parts is using the part numbers out of your IH parts manual and searching by numbers. Searching by application will get you very little results. From what I have seen so far many parts interchange between the Cs and Es.

Good luck on your quest to find a machine!

 

Thank You.

I speak Cummins B series.

 

The German diesel is linered which is preferred but parts availability concerns me- not scared just aware.

I’m a DTA360/NGD466 fan.

 

[hseII]

So I’m ordering Manuals & they are on the way.

 

What is required to allow a “dead” 125E/G to roll so it can be loaded onto a suitable trailer?

[Binderdan]

I only have my 100C manual handy but this is what is says about moving a disabled machine. I would imagine others in the 100C/E, 125 C/E, TD-7C/E, and TD-8C/E family would be same.

[farmalldr]

Binderdan has you covered as I remember it.  I think late E and G were basically the same except the Cummins engine instead of the DT239.

[hseII]

19 minutes ago, farmalldr said:

Binderdan has you covered as I remember it.  I think late E and G were basically the same except the Cummins engine instead of the DT239.

So no big deal to winch one as long as it was in neutral & the park brake is off?

 

Thank You.

[hseII]

59 minutes ago, Binderdan said:

I only have my 100C manual handy but this is what is says about moving a disabled machine. I would imagine others in the 100C/E, 125 C/E, TD-7C/E, and TD-8C/E family would be same.

Thank You.

 

ebay has about 4 different manuals- I’ve messaged about them all but I’m not sure which one is the right one for an E model.

there’s a blue one that looks like a reprint,(?), & the photos are blurry, there’s a red & black one, & I’ve seen 2 different yellow ones.

 

Advice?

[farmalldr]

1 hour ago, hseII said:

So no big deal to winch one as long as it was in neutral & the park brake is off?

 

Thank You.

Just get the bucket off the ground and if it will roll, go for it.  Nothing you can hurt on the tractor.

[Binderdan]

To have a complete set to cover the whole machine you will need5 books. The operators manual, chassis service manual, engine service manual, chassis parts manual, and engine parts manual. Which ones you need will vary with what machine you have.

You are correct, the blue ones are reprints, so are the red and black ones. I try to only buy originals, because the reprints usually don't tell you which revision they are, and the print quality can be terrible sometimes. The yellow ones are usually Dressta authorized reprints and pretty good.

I'll PM you a couple Ebay links to good 125E manuals.

[hseII]

5 hours ago, Binderdan said:

To have a complete set to cover the whole machine you will need5 books. The operators manual, chassis service manual, engine service manual, chassis parts manual, and engine parts manual. Which ones you need will vary with what machine you have.

You are correct, the blue ones are reprints, so are the red and black ones. I try to only buy originals, because the reprints usually don't tell you which revision they are, and the print quality can be terrible sometimes. The yellow ones are usually Dressta authorized reprints and pretty good.

I'll PM you a couple Ebay links to good 125E manuals.

I’m still getting used to the funky format of this forum but the Members are First Class. 
 

Thank You.

[hseII]

Starting Serial Number & Corresponding Year:

125 Series C- 1969-1974.
Weight-18,862 lbs. Bucket Capacity- 1 1/4 yard

501-1969

510-1970

710-1971

1105-1972

1499-1973

1854-1899-End of C Series- 1974

125 Series E- 1974-1989

Weight 19542 - 21,195 lbs.

Bucket Capacity- 1 3/8 yard

6001- 1974

6384-1975

6626-1976

6795-1977

6946-1978

7194-1979

7492-1980

7579-1981

9003-1982

9545-1983

9620-1984

9659-1985

According to info gathered online & based on Serial Number breaks, the 9501 update to the smaller transmission occurred between 1982-1983 calendar year. Assumption is this was for making transmission repairs & removals much less labor involved.

In an attempt to have my own source here I’m posting the following which is a copy from another thread.

 

reference

 

[hseII]

Looking at that information I’m having a hard time understanding how this machine is an E with the serial number-

 

i hope there is someone who can make sense of this serial as the number itself would date it as an early C machine but the tag clearly shows E.

I suppose a turbo would indicate it an E but the serial should match the dates unless?….

[Binderdan]

That is the serial tag for the ROPS, not the machine. The serial tag for the machine is below the seat on the left.

[hseII]

2 hours ago, Binderdan said:

That is the serial tag for the ROPS, not the machine. The serial tag for the machine is below the seat on the left.

If the tag is gone, where can I tell someone else to look for the serial?

The tag is gone.

[junkandcattle]

Try looking for an engraved number. Standing at the back right hand side above the final drive. 

[hseII]

7 hours ago, junkandcattle said:

Try looking for an engraved number. Standing at the back right hand side above the final drive. 

Thank You Sir.

[hseII]

So C Vs. E, 

Are the transmissions, finals, steering, etc., all interchangeable?

 

say an E has a bad trans or finals, but a C parts machine has a good trans & finals,

Are they direct bolt ups?

[junkandcattle]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:04 PM, hseII said:

Thank You Sir.

I was just doing a little research and I have led you astray on the serial number location. i will fix that tomorrow

[junkandcattle]

So the engraved number on mine is on the frame just left of the right hand final drive. This is the second time I have made that same mistake. Slow learner I guess. 

[hseII]

Are there component cross overs between the 125C & 125E?

 

Are the internals the same, just updated?, or are there significant differences between the 2?

I looked at & walked a 100E around on a yard today but have decided it’s a bit short on weight & power.

 

[Binderdan]

Although I do have the manuals for the C series and E series I am working out of town so I only have the 100C manual and 125E manual with me. The final drive part and torque converter part numbers are slightly different between them, but is it a 100 vs a 125 difference or a C vs E difference? I can't say with certainty.

If I had my book for 125C I could look and make a better assessment of the diferences.

That's a nice looking 100E. Did you like it other than power and weight?

I have found a new old stock decal set for these machines and I am working with a decal company to get them reproduced. So if you end up wanting a decal set let me know and hopefully I'll have them available by then.

[hseII]

10 hours ago, Binderdan said:

Although I do have the manuals for the C series and E series I am working out of town so I only have the 100C manual and 125E manual with me. The final drive part and torque converter part numbers are slightly different between them, but is it a 100 vs a 125 difference or a C vs E difference? I can't say with certainty.

If I had my book for 125C I could look and make a better assessment of the diferences.

That's a nice looking 100E. Did you like it other than power and weight?

I have found a new old stock decal set for these machines and I am working with a decal company to get them reproduced. So if you end up wanting a decal set let me know and hopefully I'll have them available by then.

The grease worms have about gotten the loader linkage. Some building up & turning would be in order. 
 

3rd gear doesn’t pull in F or R: owner thinks it’s a linkage issue. I’m no expert but I’d hazard it’s a little more than linkage.
 

That’s the only International/Dresser track loader I’ve ever sat on, & I like how it is laid out but the loader seemed slow to me.(I’m coming 38 & I believe it predates me)

IDK if that’s an age thing or just perception.  I know the cycle times on that particular 100E are slower than a 955H. 
 

I was expecting cycle times to be on par.
From ground to full height.

from full curl to full dump.

[hseII]

Also,

What’s the deal with the Korean built machines? I’ve now seen 2 that are Korean built rather than US built.

 

Are they good machines as well?

 

is this like the Caterpillars of the 1970s & 1980s where there were Japan built machines in addition to Peoria machines?