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50 series early vs late.


acem

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28 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

Can’t comment on the STS or the 15 speed. Never driven them. There is an excessive ratio jump between gears 15 and 16 on Deere 16 speed powershift. Really have to slug the engine down hard before downshifting or the engine will run against the governor and things get more herky jerky than they need to be. The 18 speed does not have that fault. 
 

I actually thought you were going to mention the 12 to 13th shift.  That is way more annoying to me then 15/16.  Over the years it didn't matter what tractor/color/transmission I'm in, I always have throttle down from the last gear when slowing down.  Even our Steiger with the Allison.  

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6 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I actually thought you were going to mention the 12 to 13th shift.  That is way more annoying to me then 15/16.  Over the years it didn't matter what tractor/color/transmission I'm in, I always have throttle down from the last gear when slowing down.  Even our Steiger with the Allison.  

On the 15 speed I disliked the shift from 7th to 8th the most. Those were gears we used in the field and they got shifted between them all the time. Overall a good transmission though in my opinion. 

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43 minutes ago, Farming Enthusiast said:

One of the stories he had in the "IH ALL THE WAY" segments that stuck with me is he has an 826 hydro with 15,000+ hours on it and although he's replaced the engine with a 360 the transmission has never failed. Just makes me wonder if the hydros got a bad rap because they got abused. 

That was on DVD 15. Yes it does make you wonder. 

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11 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

On the 15 speed I disliked the shift from 7th to 8th the most. Those were gears we used in the field and they got shifted between them all the time. Overall a good transmission though in my opinion. 

I'll take your word for it.  I've never been around the 15 speed.  Only JD power shifts we've had are the 8 speed in the 4020 and motor graders, the 16 speed in the 8000 series, and the 18 speed used in the 4 wheel drives.  Our Terragator had a Funk which I guess is JD.  I can't remember how many speeds it had but it was good tranny.  

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1 minute ago, Big Bud guy said:

I'll take your word of it.  I've never been around the 15 speed.  Only JD power shifts we've had are the 8 speed in the 4020 and motor graders, the 16 speed in the 8000 series, and the 18 speed used in the 4 wheel drives.  

I spent lots of time in a 4450 and a 4455. At the time, those were the “big” tractors here. How times have changed. The 4450 is still here, the other is long gone. 

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9 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I spent lots of time in a 4450 and a 4455. At the time, those were the “big” tractors here. How times have changed. The 4450 is still here, the other is long gone. 

Kinda scary to think about it. We use bigger tractors to feed cows with then what my grandpa farmed his 1,400 acres back in the 60s. 

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The 20 series JD power shifts had a terrible reputation round here.  Nobody wanted them for tillage work. Same with an IH TA. 

The 40 series power shift was considered more reliable but difficult to shift under load. 50 series jd was well liked but none left in tillage work here but 30 and 40 series quad ranges still are???

IH TAs have a bad reputation down here. I'm not sure why, they last many hours before needing replacement. The 50 series had a good reputation except the transmissions were known to give electrical problems. IH hydros had a good reputation but were not though of as tillage tractors.

Nobody complained about the lack of power shift. Quad range was the most popular JD transmission at the time.

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1 hour ago, acem said:

The 20 series JD power shifts had a terrible reputation round here.  Nobody wanted them for tillage work. Same with an IH TA. 

The 40 series power shift was considered more reliable but difficult to shift under load. 50 series jd was well liked but none left in tillage work here but 30 and 40 series quad ranges still are???

IH TAs have a bad reputation down here. I'm not sure why, they last many hours before needing replacement. The 50 series had a good reputation except the transmissions were known to give electrical problems. IH hydros had a good reputation but were not though of as tillage tractors.

Nobody complained about the lack of power shift. Quad range was the most popular JD transmission at the time.

JD 20 series Synchro Range outsold Power Shift 2 : 1 around here.  A lot of guys were not willing to spend the extra several hundred dollars to have PS.  30-40 series JD Quad Range was heavily preferred.  Very few TA delete IH tractors around.  Regardless of the brand nearly everybody wanted a ready shift to go through a tough spot in a field.  And every brand had devotees who could break an anvil with a rubber mallet.  So all the shops were busy fixing TA's, Hi-Lo's, over-under's, Power Directors, Dual Powers, and down the line.  The simple logic is if you shift it there will be wear even if the wear is miniscule per shift.  Find one gear that works within reason for a job and a field and stay there other than the tough spots.  Change gears ten times in a 2,000 ft round that wear adds up.  

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The IH Torque Amplifier was on the receiving end of so many jokes to the point where they were automatically deemed broken unless otherwise documented under notary supervision. This phenomenon was common because the hydraulic TA was never designed to be constantly used as an engine brake to reduce speed while towing a heavy wheeled load. However due to human nature this was a frequent occurrence because it worked famously until it didn't.

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The hydraulic IH ta was somewhat an after thought in the O6 . From all sources you read they wanted to use the hydramatic 400 design but it wasn’t working so they went with the hyd TA in the 06. And this is classic IH design flaw if they would have added a couple more fiber and steel discs in each ta clutch plus made the sprague a bit larger it would have been bullet proof. Yes John Deere and others needed power shift parts repaired also but the TA on IH tractors is one spot that everyone remembers fixing. JD power shifts up through the change to 8000 series all use that base 8 speed a 4020 used. Just beefed up a bit. The 50 series and later had pto section removed and added as a unit on the bottom pto drive. A 5020 jd had this setup. They 50 and later series had a couple more clutch packs added to fly wheel section to double speeds in back section. 

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2 hours ago, 766 Man said:

JD 20 series Synchro Range outsold Power Shift 2 : 1 around here.  A lot of guys were not willing to spend the extra several hundred dollars to have PS.  30-40 series JD Quad Range was heavily preferred.  Very few TA delete IH tractors around.  Regardless of the brand nearly everybody wanted a ready shift to go through a tough spot in a field.  And every brand had devotees who could break an anvil with a rubber mallet.  So all the shops were busy fixing TA's, Hi-Lo's, over-under's, Power Directors, Dual Powers, and down the line.  The simple logic is if you shift it there will be wear even if the wear is miniscule per shift.  Find one gear that works within reason for a job and a field and stay there other than the tough spots.  Change gears ten times in a 2,000 ft round that wear adds up.  

I think the ratio out here was even more skewed towards the syncro/quad range.  I know it seems like most 4020 power shifts I see are on early 4020s like ours.  Its like guys bought them when they first came out because they such "new" and innovative transmission and then after a few years the fanfare on them died off.  I know someone will mention the Ford SOS but those were a flop to start with. To begin with Powershifts had less power on the drawbar then syncros which might have influenced buyers besides price.  Where the powershift shined was PTO work.  Our 4020 replaced an 830 and did everything it did heavy tillage wise plowing and disking which I know is unheard of.  It also got put on our baler early on.  My great also uncle borrowed it to run their baler, their hired hand ran it too and everybody loved it.  When I first brought my 1256 home, I put it on the square baler because we were out of tractors.  It was a PITA because the field was hilly and uneven and there was lots of times I needed to shift more then one gear up and down.  I know that's an extreme example but there is a reason IH came out with the hydro.  

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1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

I think the ratio out here was even more skewed towards the syncro/quad range.  I know it seems like most 4020 power shifts I see are on early 4020s like ours.  Its like guys bought them when they first came out because they such "new" and innovative transmission and then after a few years the fanfare on them died off.  I know someone will mention the Ford SOS but those were a flop to start with. To begin with Powershifts had less power on the drawbar then syncros which might have influenced buyers besides price.  Where the powershift shined was PTO work.  Our 4020 replaced an 830 and did everything it did heavy tillage wise plowing and disking which I know is unheard of.  It also got put on our baler early on.  My great also uncle borrowed it to run their baler, their hired hand ran it too and everybody loved it.  When I first brought my 1256 home, I put it on the square baler because we were out of tractors.  It was a PITA because the field was hilly and uneven and there was lots of times I needed to shift more then one gear up and down.  I know that's an extreme example but there is a reason IH came out with the hydro.  

The early 4630s also are more powershift than synchro around here. They weren’t available as a quad range the first years

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The hydro was definitely IHs competition to the powershift. The hydro is better than the powershift with non tillage work.

There were very few JD powershifts here until the 50 series. Of course all the 4840s were powershifts but few were sold new here.

Anybody know much about the early vs late fwa on the 50 series IH?

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46 minutes ago, acem said:

The hydro was definitely IHs competition to the powershift. The hydro is better than the powershift with non tillage work.

There were very few JD powershifts here until the 50 series. Of course all the 4840s were powershifts but few were sold new here.

Anybody know much about the early vs late fwa on the 50 series IH?

The early ones were dealer installed or at least the could ad a mfwd onto a 2wd tractor. It involved making a hole into casting for front drive parts to go into transmission. The later ones are better units.

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On 3/23/2023 at 9:03 PM, Big Bud guy said:

Was there any salesmen literature put out by IH for the IH 50 series vs JD 50 series.  Do you have any? 

 

I don't have later literature. I have one single sheet that interesting but I can't find it:huh: 

  Personally ( as someone not in sales) I don't think something necessarily has to be bad for something else to be great! The 50 Series IH and JDs are both outstanding tractors. 

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11 hours ago, acem said:

The hydro was definitely IHs competition to the powershift. The hydro is better than the powershift with non tillage work.

Key word right there.  Ideally, if you are running a ranch/feedlot/ or big dairy you want both a hydro and a regular gear tractor like my cousins.  They ran the hydro 1066 along side the 6030 forage chopping. And then the 1066 did the rest of the haying while the 6030 did the summer fallowing.  They put the 1066 on the disk once and it didn’t work out that good. 

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19 hours ago, dale560 said:

The early 4630s also are more powershift than synchro around here. They weren’t available as a quad range the first years

Weren’t too many 30 series here for some reason.  The only 4630 I’ve been around is my neighbors he pulls a Freeman baler with.  It’s a quad range but I’ve always been curious what JD did to beef them up to get them in the 46X0 series.

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On 3/21/2023 at 8:37 AM, SDman said:

After that, they quit installing radios for them at the plant and became a dealer-installed accessory.

Now to think about it. When we bought the 105U in 2013. The radio wasn't installed when we test drove it in the dealer lot. They installed it after the purchase before delivery. 

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1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

Weren’t too many 30 series here for some reason.  The only 4630 I’ve been around is my neighbors he pulls a Freeman baler with.  It’s a quad range but I’ve always been curious what JD did to beef them up to get them in the 46X0 series.

Different back half of tractor from a 4430. From clutch back to 3 pt. The 4430 and down are the 4320,4020 drivetrain. The 4520,4620 were bigger tractors but not the size of 5010,20 6030.  The 7020/7520 were a 4wd version of the 4520,4620 synchro tractors. The transmission shafts and gears got updated a bit for the 4630 rear and they used that as a foundation for the 84/8630 and later series of 4wd.

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13 hours ago, acem said:

The hydro was definitely IHs competition to the powershift. The hydro is better than the powershift with non tillage work.

There were very few JD powershifts here until the 50 series. Of course all the 4840s were powershifts but few were sold new here.

Anybody know much about the early vs late fwa on the 50 series IH?

I had a 1982 5488 and it had the Elwood front assist. It drive off the side like the 66 series. Don’t remember if it had a center line access on front of trans. 

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14 hours ago, acem said:

The hydro was definitely IHs competition to the powershift. The hydro is better than the powershift with non tillage work.

There were very few JD powershifts here until the 50 series. Of course all the 4840s were powershifts but few were sold new here.

Anybody know much about the early vs late fwa on the 50 series IH?

Same here. There were hardly any 8 speed Deere powershifts. All were syncros or Quad Ranges. Deere powershifts weren't a thing til the 15 speeds and those were bought used in the 90s.

I can think of exactly 2 8 speed Deere powershifts in the area. One is in a 4840 where it wasn't a option. 8 speed was it. And a Deere 510C backhoe which is a 3020 engine and Powershift with a shuttle reverser shoved in a  backhoe application. 

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On 3/21/2023 at 7:33 PM, 766 Man said:

  It was worse in some respects around here as we lost quite a number of non-farm employers.  At  one plant the company broke the union by 1985 so the jobs that remained were on pay scales less than half of original.  By 1985 I was wondering if taking ag economics in college was a wise choice.  Mom and dad a few times pondered out loud as to whether they wanted to keep going with the farm.  As I said before their were some that were not affected by grain and milk prices but they had their own worries.

Same thing here. 

Dad was in a Damned if i do, Damned if don't. 

Farming with Grandpa from when he graduated in 1972. The only good thing was Dad hated milking cows. In the late 70s they were in the need to update the dairy and to make it pay they would have probably had to expand. They were milking 30 or 40 cows at the time. It was a no brainer for Dad. With those options Dad said how quick can the cows go. They were feeding cattle too and he liked that better. Cows went and they got beef brood cows to go where the dairy was. Cows and the feedlot are still here. 

Im willing to bet if they had borrowed to update and expand the dairy, it would have sunk the place in the 80s.

My home town went through a extremely bloody early 80s job wise. Factories closing left and right. One point in 1981 the jobless rate in Albion was 28%. I blow my wife away when i tell her that until I was in high school i never went to school more than a block away from a abandoned factory. Kindergarten thru 8th grade. On the opening day of school every year during the first day assembly they were always telling us not to wander into the old factories. It was that easy to do around here. Town honestly has never fully recovered from it. Town was roughly 20,000 before. Now we run roughly 8000. We were just voted 8th most dangerous city in Michigan.  We don't call it little Detriot for nothing. 

By the time i came along in 84. Couldn't make squat farming, Couldn't get a job off the farm either. So he stuck it out. 1988 was our almost broke us year. Drought and my brother being born with health problems pretty much broke my parents. I was 4 that Christmas and i remember how bad they felt when they could only afford one Christmas present for me.

1990 Grandpa retired and Dad bought him out so money remained tight for years. My Great Grandpa hung up farming in 94 and Dad took over. My Grandpa helped where he could. But with the additional work and couldn't afford help. I got throw into the trenches. I was 9 that spring. Get home from school, change clothes and ride my bike. To the main farm to grab a tractor at the main farm and go to work. That was the end of a carefree childhood. We were farming with worn out junk by that point. That's where i learned to wrench on stuff.

It worked out. Still farming. 

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On 3/21/2023 at 8:34 PM, hillman said:

 

I suck at posting videos on here. But Sawyer Brown had a song Called "Cafe Down on the Corner" if you watch the music video it has echos of the farm crisis in it. 

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23 hours ago, dale560 said:

The early 4630s also are more powershift than synchro around here. They weren’t available as a quad range the first years

Well speaking of powershifts, a JD 4430 with a loader and powershift with FWD showed up on my dealer’s lot.  A real rancher’s special.  First time I’ve seen that combo.  

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