1960 340 Farmall timing issues

[WiscoFlowers]

Recently purchased in-laws farm and it came with two 340’s that we use for flower farming. One is a 1960 and the other is 1961. 
 

There always seems to be an issue with the one starting. I have helped adjust the points numerous times over the last few years because that’s what I was told to do but now that I own the tractors I didn’t want to mess with them anymore. Did some digging and wanted to convert it from 6 volt positive ground to 12v negative ground as well as eliminate the points and install the electronic ignition kit from pertronix. Fast forward to installing the electronic ignition and the magnetic sleeve didn’t fit over the cam of the distributor because the distributor was not an original (found this out after the fact) got ahold of an original distributor and marked everything on the old one and swapped it out with the new one. The tractor runs but it doesn’t seem right. I tried loosening the distributor housing and slightly rotating both CW and CCW and it seemed better the more advanced I made it but then it started running too hot. I am starting to think maybe I could be off a tooth on the actual distributor but honestly I have limited experience with distributors so I am learning this all as I go. My question is how do I actually time the engine correctly. I found the “point” on the front of the engine, but I didn’t find any marks on the pulley. I’ll admit I didn’t look overly hard because I was getting hungry and ready to call it a day. I will look for the mark or marks when I head back out but I am still confused on how I actually orientate the distributor or cap when I have cylinder 1 at TDC. 

 

Also, hopefully this is in the correct forum. Thanks in advance 

[Matt Kirsch]

You can't be "off a tooth" with an IH distributor. They allow for 360 degree rotation. If it starts and runs you're in the ballpark, and you can just turn it to where it needs to be.

Where did you get the distributor? Did you just get "a distributor" or did you get "a distributor for a Farmall 340?" The IH distributors LOOK the same but there are different advance curves for different tractor models. I don't know what specific advance a 340 needs off the top of my head, though.

If the distributor is worn slap out it will also be impossible to tune.

Timing by ear you adjust for best idle, then yank the throttle wide open. If it stumbles adjust the timing and try again. You want the best combination of smooth idle and smooth acceleration.

[rustred]

i will answer your last question first , cause and   you need to know that.  turning the distributor the opposite way the rotor turns is advancing the timing.   and of course  turning it the same way as rotation is retarding the timing. do u have a timing light ? need that to verify the advance is working. to statically time it all you have to do is align the front pully tdc mark to the pointer, on the compression stroke. then with the dist. cap of with a piece of paper between the points turn the distributor oppossite way the rotor turns. as soon as the point cam comes in contact with the distributor cam the points will open. ... soo as soon as the points are just to open and the paper will pull out tighten the distributor down right there.  2 other ways to do this same thing also. one is to have the key on and the instant the points spark tighten it down . the other way is to use a test light. i gave you very simplest way . you need the test light to make sure you are getting 30 degree's of advance at wide open throtle.  point setting is .020 

[rustred]

1 minute ago, rustred said:

i will answer your last question first , cause and   you need to know that.  turning the distributor the opposite way the rotor turns is advancing the timing.   and of course  turning it the same way as rotation is retarding the timing. do u have a timing light ? need that to verify the advance is working. to statically time it all you have to do is align the front pully tdc mark to the pointer, on the compression stroke. then with the dist. cap of with a piece of paper between the points turn the distributor oppossite way the rotor turns. as soon as the point cam comes in contact with the distributor cam the points will open. ... soo as soon as the points are just to open and the paper will pull out tighten the distributor down right there.  2 other ways to do this same thing also. one is to have the key on and the instant the points spark tighten it down . the other way is to use a test light. i gave you very simplest way . you need the test light to make sure you are getting 30 degree's of advance at wide open throtle.  point setting is .020 

i will also say timing by ear for a beginner dont work, cause it will be way advanced ,... because they keep advancing till its running the smoothest and that is way too much advance.  you need a timing light to get your 30 degree's if the distributor advance is working as it should. even spray some lube in side for the weights and springs. done my way its totally exact timing to factory spec.

[WiscoFlowers]

5 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

You can't be "off a tooth" with an IH distributor. They allow for 360 degree rotation. If it starts and runs you're in the ballpark, and you can just turn it to where it needs to be.

Where did you get the distributor? Did you just get "a distributor" or did you get "a distributor for a Farmall 340?" The IH distributors LOOK the same but there are different advance curves for different tractor models. I don't know what specific advance a 340 needs off the top of my head, though.

If the distributor is worn slap out it will also be impossible to tune.

Timing by ear you adjust for best idle, then yank the throttle wide open. If it stumbles adjust the timing and try again. You want the best combination of smooth idle and smooth acceleration.

I purchased a brand new distributor from yesterdays tractor co and it said it was for a farmall 340.  Thank you for clearing up the whole off a tooth think. In my head I was trying to figure out how that all worked and if it really mattered but I wasn’t able to work it out. 
 

When I was at the lowest possible throttle it seemed like it was idling much higher than it used to. I could turn the distributor CW and it would slow down but it seemed like it was almost misfiring and puttering out. The further back I turned it CCW (almost an 1/8 of a turn from where I initially had it) it sounded better but the idle was much higher and when I turned it off I had a few drops of coolant coming out around a hose clamp on one of the radiator hoses which made me think I was over heating it. In all I probably only had it running for about 5 minutes. 

[WiscoFlowers]

8 minutes ago, rustred said:

i will also say timing by ear for a beginner dont work, cause it will be way advanced ,... because they keep advancing till its running the smoothest and that is way too much advance.  you need a timing light to get your 30 degree's if the distributor advance is working as it should. even spray some lube in side for the weights and springs. done my way its totally exact timing to factory spec.

I believe that was my issue. I was advancing it way too much and it sounded pretty smooth but then I believe I was over heating it. I do not have a timing light, but my neighbor has one and I hope to get my hands on it tomorrow, and I cannot set it using the points because I removed the points. 

[WiscoFlowers]

10 minutes ago, WiscoFlowers said:

I purchased a brand new distributor from yesterdays tractor co and it said it was for a farmall 340.  Thank you for clearing up the whole off a tooth think. In my head I was trying to figure out how that all worked and if it really mattered but I wasn’t able to work it out. 
 

When I was at the lowest possible throttle it seemed like it was idling much higher than it used to. I could turn the distributor CW and it would slow down but it seemed like it was almost misfiring and puttering out. The further back I turned it CCW (almost an 1/8 of a turn from where I initially had it) it sounded better but the idle was much higher and when I turned it off I had a few drops of coolant coming out around a hose clamp on one of the radiator hoses which made me think I was over heating it. In all I probably only had it running for about 5 minutes. 

When I say I turned it about an 1/8th of a turn my initial marks I made with a sharpie were at 5:00 and that was where it seemed like it was idling high. I turned it so my mark on the housing was now at 3 which I believed advanced it far enough to run smooth at idle but then it was overheating. 

[rustred]

47 minutes ago, WiscoFlowers said:

When I say I turned it about an 1/8th of a turn my initial marks I made with a sharpie were at 5:00 and that was where it seemed like it was idling high. I turned it so my mark on the housing was now at 3 which I believed advanced it far enough to run smooth at idle but then it was overheating. 

wow, u cant turn it that far. time it as i said. plus lots of times you put a chizel mark on the distributor housing and block when its timed correctly , that way if you need to advance it a few degree's you have a mark to go by.  so just time it to top dead centre as i said and see what happens. oooohhh but you have no points. to me that is foolish , you cant beat points.

[Matt Kirsch]

10 hours ago, rustred said:

all you have to do is align the front pully tdc mark to the pointer

Unfortunately, in his initial post he stated that he could not find a mark on the pulley.

The C135 in the 340 is based on the A/B/C engine. On these engines the timing mark is SOMETIMES on the flywheel. I say sometimes because there is no mark whatsoever on the flywheel of my Super C. 

It's not the end of the world, though. All you need is a spark plug wrench and a flashlight. Pull the #1 (front) spark plug, and put whatever finger will fit and cover the hole, in the hole. Rotate the engine until you get pressure on your finger. Remove your finger and shine the light in the hole so you can see. Turn the engine slowly until the piston is as high as it can get in the hole. That is TDC. Now look for a mark on the pulley. If there is one it should be right there at the pointer. No mark? Make one.

[rustred]

4 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Unfortunately, in his initial post he stated that he could not find a mark on the pulley.

The C135 in the 340 is based on the A/B/C engine. On these engines the timing mark is SOMETIMES on the flywheel. I say sometimes because there is no mark whatsoever on the flywheel of my Super C. 

It's not the end of the world, though. All you need is a spark plug wrench and a flashlight. Pull the #1 (front) spark plug, and put whatever finger will fit and cover the hole, in the hole. Rotate the engine until you get pressure on your finger. Remove your finger and shine the light in the hole so you can see. Turn the engine slowly until the piston is as high as it can get in the hole. That is TDC. Now look for a mark on the pulley. If there is one it should be right there at the pointer. No mark? Make one.

yes exactly.

[WiscoFlowers]

So I found about 40 or so dashes on the pulley after removing all of the crud and paint. Top side of dashes had an A and bottom end of dashes has a R. I don’t see any other letters or numbers on the scale. Is it safe to assume TDC is directly in the middle? 
I will pull the first plug and find it that way but I’m just curious. But I am also still confused on how to initially orientate the distributor for TDC on cylinder 1. 
 

On a side note I filled the radiator because it was low about 2 gallons and found a leak on the seam of the tank. Im going to solder that when the tank is finished draining. Sucks that there is no drain besides removing the lower hose. Even then there isn’t a good way to catch the coolant to prevent a large mess. 

[rustred]

yes, thats right, i just went through all this with a guy on his 460. the tdc mark is about 1 1/4 inch  before the R for retard. there should be a T  there for tdc.  many times these marks get rubbed off with dirt.  i clean them up when running with a wire brush held on the pully. that A is for advance and will be before the tdc mark. to orientate the dist u must line up the rotor to the number one plug wire terminal in the distributor.   is the distributor out or in now??  if you can see how that pickup coil works you can get it close to start it then time it with a light.

[R190]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:53 PM, WiscoFlowers said:

So I found about 40 or so dashes on the pulley after removing all of the crud and paint. Top side of dashes had an A and bottom end of dashes has a R. I don’t see any other letters or numbers on the scale. Is it safe to assume TDC is directly in the middle? 
I will pull the first plug and find it that way but I’m just curious. But I am also still confused on how to initially orientate the distributor for TDC on cylinder 1. 
 

On a side note I filled the radiator because it was low about 2 gallons and found a leak on the seam of the tank. Im going to solder that when the tank is finished draining. Sucks that there is no drain besides removing the lower hose. Even then there isn’t a good way to catch the coolant to prevent a large mess. 

It is not safe to say tdc is directly in the middle its about 10 degrees from the retard end the range stretches approximately 40 degrees from the advance end so you can check you advance and set your timing at wide open throttle how many degree advance is in the distributer you bought the seller should be able to tell you?