270A Backhoe Swing Nut Removal

[Binderdan]

My 270A backhoe swing has been getting sloppy. I noticed last time I used it that the top swing nut was flopping around in its hole. After digging into the books I believe that #5 bearing has worn or broken allowing the top to move in its hole. To get to the bearing I have to remove the top swing nut #11. The service manual says it is torqued to 1000 ft lbs.

I have tried penetrating oil, heat, 48" pipe wrench with a 4' pipe on it and all I do is bend the grade 8 cut off bolts I put in the holes to grip. It has 4x 1/2" holes about 1/2" to 3/4" deep. I do not know of any spanner wrench that will fit, or any that will hold that sort of torque. Any suggestions to remove this thing? I'm in New Mexico so rust isn't as much of a factor as in most places. I considered making a tool but I doubt I can get it to hold up to that kind of torque.

I want to fix this before it becomes a bigger problem and involves some VERY hard to get parts.

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[nomorejohndeere]

weld a big ol inch drive socket to it?

is the shaft centered in the boom so its not binding on one side?

 

[nomorejohndeere]

or just weld a big thick inch or more thick chunk to the top and attack 

[int 504]

Piece of 1" or so steel with four hardened pins pressed or welded in to fit the four holes in the nut and a big nut welded in the center of it. Center pivot bearing nuts on loaders were torqued to 1 or 2000 depending on size of loader. 1" drive with long pipe and two of us on it in the field. Geared torque multiplier in the shop with torque wrench driving.

[just Dave]

50 minutes ago, Binderdan said:

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

24 minutes ago, nomorejohndeere said:

is the shaft centered in the boom so its not binding on one side?

 

11 minutes ago, int 504 said:

four hardened pins pressed

Like said make 4 pin socket driven 1” min drive. A 1” impact would be nice if you have access to one. Pulling on a long arm from one side can tend to bind the threaded fit. If no impact use 1” tee so someone can dead blow tap/pound on the 1” tee handle opposite of long handle/cheeter pipe.  Good luck

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

A very large nut welded down with super missle welding rod would almost certainly hold. You could cut it off after removal. Gonna have to get creative. I use super missle welding rod all the the time and it is very good stuff. It’s priced accordingly. The other ideas for tools would probably be better better than my idea. 

[Binderdan]

I did move the hoe before I started to center it in the hole. Hoping not to weld to it unless I have to, but I suppose I can always make a new nut if I ruin this one.

Some good ideas for making tools. I do have a 1' impact. With your suggestions I thought of a way to make a socket that might work.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

You could probably thread the holes for 9/16 bolts to fasten your “wrench” down. 

[Ian Beale]

12 hours ago, Binderdan said:

all I do is bend the grade 8 cut off bolts I put in the holes to grip.

Did you use all 4 or just 2 bolts?  If just 2 and they bent then then you'll likely go OK with 4.  I'm presuming that if you can make another nut you have the gear to make a plate to hold them?

Would be good if you could thread the holes to hold everything down but that will depend on how hard the nut is - there might be a language advisory if you happened to break a tap off!

My 2 cents worth.

[pede]

Make a round plate to match, maybe 5/8thick or so. Now drill 4 holes and use 4 bolts. I might weld a bar to the plate but a big nut will also work.  

[just Dave]

I would not weld directly to nut, you could shrink it. Like DFP said taping spanner holes for positive attachment is a good technique. You can weld bolt shanks to a 1” drive to make spanner but Be Aware that the bolts WILL BE BRITTLE at weld. Good luck 

 

[Binderdan]

A little update... I made a tool.

Made with 1" thick steel, all 4 holes were located with a Bridgeport mill, then cut out a 1" square in the middle to accommodate my 1" drive impact. The narrower handle is made to accommodate 2 7/8" oilfield pipe as a cheater, or to be hit with a hammer. Four 1/2" grade 8 bolts with shanks at least 3/4" through the holes were tack welded into the holes. Don't mind the booger welds, as they need to be removable if the bolt is damaged. Once I measure the exact depth of the holes I will cut the threaded part of the bolts off matching the remaining shank length with the hole depth for maximum hole engagement. 

Between the 1" drive impact, a 6' cheater pipe, a hammer, heat, and PB Blaster I think I have a chance! lol.

Unfortunately I left town for a few months for work before I could cut the bolts and try it. So we will be in suspense for a while.

[ChaseIH]

Looks like you’re headed in the right direction. Dad has a 260A and snapped the shaft I believe #6 but it’s pointed to the gear but that shaft snapped in ours. We luckily found a complete replacement unit from West Virginia and had north west hydraulics completely rebuild it. So far so good

[just Dave]

Great job on the Toolmaker work.

[JK2020IH]

You could also try a torque multiplier wrench such as this one from Amazon or Harbor freight sells the same type but more money. It beats trying to wrangle a 15 foot cheater bar. You can also make a "timing mark" on both the backhoe mount and nut to provide a visual aid to see if the nut is turning, as well as a visual aid to know where the nut was originally at when torqued when reassembling. Just my 2 cents.

 https://www.amazon.com/Mophorn-Torque-Multiplier-Remover-Trailer/dp/B07HT31B3K/ref=asc_df_B07HT31B3K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309802506143&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7933510594337377554&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007169&hvtargid=pla-633330312677&psc=1

Welding a nut on it, letting it cool and then attempting to remove it. Just lathe cut the welded nut off after you remove the main nut. IMO it may be better to actually machine a new updated style nut that allows the use of the torque multiplier wrench vs the old style that requires as super large cheater bar. I would like to know the outcome as I have the same issue with my 270A. The top swing bearing is getting sloppy and I will probably attempt to tackle it this winter.

[Binderdan]

That torque multiplier is an idea. If my tool doesn't work I may try that sort of device. Hopefully I can reuse the nut. If not I might do like you said and make a new nut with a large hex on top.

While I'm away for work I have done some research and I might as well type my findings here so I can find them later.

NOTE: this thread only pertains to the larger IH hoes with the boom pivot at the bottom of the swing such as IH 270A, 280A, 3600A and maybe some others. 260A and smaller with the pivot at the top of the swing use a different swing but there may be some other similarities.

From my understanding the only thing that holds the top of the swing centered is #5 "Bushing, self aligning ball" part number 56556C1. Best I can tell this busing runs dry. There is no provision for lubrication that I see, nor is shown in the operators manual. The bottom bushing however is lubricated by a grease zerk.  Seems odd to me that such a heavy hoe is fully supported by a dry running, unsealed bushing, in an area that is a catch for dirt and water. I suspect I will find this bushing broken, worn out, or otherwise failing.

After searching my normal places for IH part number 56556C1 I came up with nothing. Discontinued with no NOS to be found. Luckily that never stopped me. After digging deeper I found that number superseded to a J.I. Case number D51018. When searching this number through Case IH it comes up as a good number, and a common pivot bushing used in Steiger tractors from the 1980s and 1990s, and a 1950s J.I. Case tractor. Pricing isn't terrible at $157 but its special order. But wait! There is a photo!

As you can see the photo clearly shows an SKF number on it! SKF number GEZ204ES. Internet turns up that SKF GEZ204ES is readily available new for about $150, even NOS for about $50-$150, and a off brand for about $40.

In my search for the SKF I found that by adding a "2RS" suffix to the SKF part number it adds a seal to the bushing. I wonder if this sealed version would be better for keeping dirt, grit, and moisture out of the bushing in the future, or if it will just hold dirt, grit, and moisture in compounding the problem. I will see once I get it apart.

[nomorejohndeere]

suppose a feller could drill it and add a zerk...

 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

I’m not sure on the diameter of that bushing, but my 1985 Steiger has several different sizes of that type of bushing. They are all able to be greased. If it is the same one used on the Steiger tractors I would think that you could grease it. 

[JK2020IH]

I will have to take a look at the top section of mine again, but I do remember a grease fitting up around the top section of the swing mechanism housing to grease that bearing. I remember greasing it up top and it was so sloppy/worn the grease just dropped from the top into a big pile right onto the top of the swing seal that is visible through the holes in the side of the housing. I did not see any grease points on the actual top swing mount. Just a hole that is plugged or has a Allen type threaded plug in it. 

I did find a company selling the SKF bearing for $58 - picture has different part number, but listing description identifies your SKF part number. It also provides dimensions.

https://intechbearing.com/products/gez-204-es-spherical-plain-bearing?variant=1108220545

 

[JK2020IH]

There are multiple numbers for this bearing.

BE GEZ 57 ES 2RS - 2-1/4'' ID x 3-9/16'' OD x 1-11/16'' Outer Ring Width x 1-31/32'' Ball Width Radial Ball Bushing - Sealed (SKF# GEZ 204 ES, RBC# B 36 L, Torrington# 22 SF 36)

Row 11 in the page I added shows the part number you came up with but in the "reference number" column. And provides dimensions of it. This page also shows many more bearings with dimensions just in case the original bearing you remove has different dimensions. 

Hope this helps. I can see it already is going to be a fun task when I do mine. lol.

[JK2020IH]

https://mpparts.com/part/skf-gez204es-booster-cylinder-ball-bushing-2-25inch-gez204es

Sealed type bearing from this company $47

[Binderdan]

Dirt_Floor_Poor is correct, the replacement bearing itself is definitely greaseable. However no provisions that I can find on my application once installed.

JK2020IH that's some great bearing info. Such a relief to find these are still readily available.

As I sit and stare at this diagram and how this all works I realize I may have been thinking about this wrong. The shaft (#6) is splined to the tractor chassis at the bottom and doesn't move. The swing (#1) rotates on the splined shaft (#6). Which means the shaft and nut on top shouldn't turn with the swing(I don't recall if mine did or not, hopefully not). This also means that top bearing in question isn't exposed to motion. I believe its job is simply to hold the upper part of the shaft centered in the upper frame bore. The ball part of the bearing probably just allows for frame or shaft flex and irregularities. So the need for lubrication of this bearing would be very minimal. That being said, I think the sealed version might be a good idea.

Still wondering how it would have gotten damaged, worn, broken, or whatever. But I cant take it apart for another couple months. Ugh... The suspense. lol

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

On my Steiger I have had a few of those bushings split the outer part. I don’t know if you would refer to that as the race? I have had to have a few housings bored out and a bushing made to return to the OEM size.