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Is the IH 86 series that bad?


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4 hours ago, acem said:

It would have been good if they offered a power shift speed transmission. They could have easily fit a 4 speed power shift in the space of the speed transmission, maybe 8 speed. It would be an upgrade option like JD and case offered. IH had power shift technology in their construction side.

I guess marketing thought it wouldn't make enough money or they thought the hydro 186 covered that market segment.

Thx-Ace 

IH had a hydromechanical and a GM Hydramatic speed transmission setup, both installed in an 806 platform in the early 60's but neither made it to production. The powershift concept arrived along with a newer hydromechanical installed in place of the speed transmission on a 5088 and both of those were poised for production when the Buzzards got hold of everything.

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2 hours ago, Drysleeves said:

IH had a hydromechanical and a GM Hydramatic speed transmission setup, both installed in an 806 platform in the early 60's but neither made it to production. 

I read somewhere that the TA/ clutch housing that started with the 06 series has the shape it does, because the hydramatic parts would fit into it.  Too bad IH did not pursue the idea further......

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1 hour ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

I read somewhere that the TA/ clutch housing that started with the 06 series has the shape it does, because the hydramatic parts would fit into it.  Too bad IH did not pursue the idea further......

Although I will forever sing the praises of the TH400 transmission, I doubt that they would stand up to hired hands on a high torque and power IHC engine. 

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9 hours ago, acem said:

IH had power shift technology in their construction side.

I've often wondered, could any of the construction PS transmissions be shoe horned into a 66 or 86 series?

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One big difference between the 86/88 and sound guard cabs is the roof. 

The 86/88 cab roof is metal. I consider them more durable but they eventually rust out. The sound guard roof is plastic and seem disposable. However they are easy to replace while a rusted out 86 cab is hard to replace.

Thx-Ace 

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A lot of IH's delay in keeping up to date goes back to the Oliver book I read. He said a small company like Oliver could go from idea to production in as little as a year. A large company like IHC was 3-5 years after it was studied by multiple committee's. Stands to reason. Oliver had IPTO roughly 7 years before IHC and 6 years before Deere. I don't count the JD's model R's pto as that was live thru the hydraulic drive and to weak for heavy use.

IH's 50 series was an example. Supposed to be introduced as early as 1977.  Internal battling combined with PIA union BS delayed the ground breaking series until it was to late turn things around when it finally was introduced.

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5 minutes ago, acem said:

One big difference between the 86/88 and sound guard cabs is the roof. 

The 86/88 cab roof is metal. I consider them more durable but they eventually rust out. The sound guard roof is plastic and seem disposable. However they are easy to replace while a rusted out 86 cab is hard to replace.

Thx-Ace 

The SG roof is also great when you need to work on anything above the headliner. White copied the SG roof, only it's metal. Three 3/8 bolts and the whole roof hinges over to the right. I started out as an Oliver/White mechanic. Had a guy bring in a 986 for a/c work. I missed the Whites roof immediately. 

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59 minutes ago, cedar farm said:

A lot of IH's delay in keeping up to date goes back to the Oliver book I read. He said a small company like Oliver could go from idea to production in as little as a year. A large company like IHC was 3-5 years after it was studied by multiple committee's. Stands to reason. Oliver had IPTO roughly 7 years before IHC and 6 years before Deere. I don't count the JD's model R's pto as that was live thru the hydraulic drive and to weak for heavy use.

 

To get real technical the Cockshutt 30 beat Oliver to the market by a year with LPTO.  And that tractor was built out of shelf components with a Timken tranny/rear end mated to a Buda engine.  Also on the R, the hydraulics ran off the PTO.  You could have ordered a PTO and no hydraulics but not the other way around.  Having to run the PTO all the time no matter what you were doing if you wanted hydraulics probably didn't help the durability either.  

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16 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

To get real technical the Cockshutt 30 beat Oliver to the market by a year with LPTO.  And that tractor was built out of shelf components with a Timken tranny/rear end mated to a Buda engine.  Also on the R, the hydraulics ran off the PTO.  You could have ordered a PTO and no hydraulics but not the other way around.  Having to run the PTO all the time no matter what you were doing if you wanted hydraulics probably didn't help the durability either.  

The Oliver book talks about the Cockshutt. A bit of an asterisk on who was first according to the Oliver engineer who wrote the book. Our neighbor farmed with an R. His son still owns it. He said you didn't really want to use it very hard. 

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14 hours ago, acem said:

It would have been good if they offered a power shift speed transmission. They could have easily fit a 4 speed power shift in the space of the speed transmission, maybe 8 speed. It would be an upgrade option like JD and case offered. IH had power shift technology in their construction side.

I guess marketing thought it wouldn't make enough money or they thought the hydro 186 covered that market segment.

Thx-Ace 

The power shift transmissions on construction equipment at that time were usually only 3 or 4 speeds and had a torque converter which makes it a lot easier to get a smooth shift under load. The converter without a lockup clutch would make it impossible to get the constant speeds required in farming.


I remember comments in the seventies that IH thought they had the powershift competition covered with the hydros.  After the Magnum came out, I ran across our former territory manager and asked why the 50 series had not come out as a powershift.  His answer was “someone in Chicago didn’t think farmers needed powershift transmissions”.  After reading in the Red Tractors book about how much time and money it took to perfect the Magnum powershift, IH’s financial condition was probably the real reason for no 50 series powershift.

Brian

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Resources at Harvester were clearly detailed to some form of variable speed transmission with a range selection format starting at least in the early 1960's. Given the scarcity of R & D resources due to corporate decisions to chase other interests it's probably safe to assume a full powershift concept was not front and center until a later time.

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5 hours ago, E160BHM said:

The power shift transmissions on construction equipment at that time were usually only 3 or 4 speeds and had a torque converter which makes it a lot easier to get a smooth shift under load. The converter without a lockup clutch would make it impossible to get the constant speeds required in farming.


I remember comments in the seventies that IH thought they had the powershift competition covered with the hydros.  After the Magnum came out, I ran across our former territory manager and asked why the 50 series had not come out as a powershift.  His answer was “someone in Chicago didn’t think farmers needed powershift transmissions”.  After reading in the Red Tractors book about how much time and money it took to perfect the Magnum powershift, IH’s financial condition was probably the real reason for no 50 series powershift.

Brian

  Money had everything to do with it.  From the CEO on down.  Nobody tools up for a major tractor line (86 series) for a one year run by design.  The plan was to keep milking the 66 series with minimal change.  IH still had to make the components unique to the 86 series (cab and controls) and it is not practical to do in limited batches.  It cost money to set up production lines at IH or outside vendors and once you do you need to run like the wind.  

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17 hours ago, cedar farm said:

The Oliver book talks about the Cockshutt. A bit of an asterisk on who was first according to the Oliver engineer who wrote the book. Our neighbor farmed with an R. His son still owns it. He said you didn't really want to use it very hard. 

Cockshutt put a trademark on the name. I would be interested in hearing the story from Oliver

lpto.jpg

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On 2/15/2023 at 7:34 PM, Farming Enthusiast said:

My dad has a 1086. Along with a 1066 It was the big tractor on the farm from 1993-2011 until the 88 series tractors started showing up. Now planting and blowing snow are it's main duty's. Also used it to haul grain to the elevator for quite a few years. I've seen on the internet that people really bad mouth them for the park brake being in the way among other nit picky reasons. I think I'd rather have a 66 series for a loader tractor as the shifter can get temper mental but it's really a nice tractor for what we use it for. How do you guys on here feel about them and where do they rank among other IH series. 

I have a farm that accepts unwanted rescue 86 series tractors that are unloved.   With some funding I'd like to run TV adds like ASPCA for unwanted and unloved 86 series tractors and provide them a free home where they will be loved and treasured.  Help me get the word out.  

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3 hours ago, hillman said:

Cockshutt put a trademark on the name. I would be interested in hearing the story from Oliver

lpto.jpg

I can't find the book. I think I loaned it to my brother. It was written by the engineer who was head of the Fleetline series program. He talks about the Cockshutt vs Oliver IPTO. I am going from memory now. It had something to do with a 3 month time frame. It may be Cockshutt got to the patent office first. It is a very interesting book to read. He was with Oliver from 1940 to 1970.

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10 hours ago, B.B. said:

I have a farm that accepts unwanted rescue 86 series tractors that are unloved.   With some funding I'd like to run TV adds like ASPCA for unwanted and unloved 86 series tractors and provide them a free home where they will be loved and treasured.  Help me get the word out.  

 

I was thinking along the same line . I hope I don't step on your toes but I am 11 hours from Indy so we should be OK

 I will pay 1 1/2 scrap price for the first six  86 series tractors. Dead or alive. Preferential consideration given to residents of Ontario,Quebec, New York and Mich

 Scrap price also given for JD tractors with SGC in good running condition delivered to my doorstep. ;)

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11 hours ago, B.B. said:

I have a farm that accepts unwanted rescue 86 series tractors that are unloved.   With some funding I'd like to run TV adds like ASPCA for unwanted and unloved 86 series tractors and provide them a free home where they will be loved and treasured.  Help me get the word out.  

FB_IMG_1670936506303.jpg

Id be more than happy to start a southern Michigan branch!

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On 2/17/2023 at 7:20 AM, Farmall Doctor said:

Did anyone ever bother to lubricate it? I see it all the time. A couple of shots of lube under the dash, and they move freely. There are lube points above the  MCV as well.

Exactly what we did with our 986. No problem since.

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On 2/18/2023 at 12:28 PM, Drysleeves said:

There was a story in Red Power some years back where a guy put a Magnum door on his 1086. Reinforced the pillar for the hinges and the side window had to become a fixed piece of glass.

looks like it supposed to be on there

 

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That's because it is. Looks cool. Not sure about the grey accents. Brown, red or black would be preferred.

First 86 Series I ever operated was a brand spanking new 986 in the spring of 1977. It was on loan when the steering hand pump overheated and burned out the third time in our year old 1066 Blackstripe. The 986 was cool but even then I couldn't understand the backwards door thing as a youngster. Nothing beat the smell of a brand new Farmall tractor. Smelled like nothing else.

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Remember complaints on how the TA lever would kinda ‘snap’ into position. Rear visibility  was limited when using a semi mount moldboard plow, was kinda difficult to see the first bottom, compared to the 06, and 56 series.

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......who said there was anything wrong with    these 86   tractors ??????

......our one got caught in a flash flood a few years gone...ran for several hours  as in the first picture..before a  neighbours   old Fiat / Allis  loader was able to haul it off the rock that it got caught on.....

,,,she lived on, after a major clean up 

Note the pair of boots on the tractor cab roof.......

Mike

Tractor Rescue 002.jpg

Tractor Rescue 005.jpg

Tractor Rescue 010.jpg

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