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Is the IH 86 series that bad?


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1 hour ago, Reichow7120 said:

Ive always wondered why the 66 series cabs get a blind eye turned to those cabs and their very obvious shortcomings. But the 86 series gets hated on so much.

What are you talking about? Seems like 95% of them get pulled off in favor of fenders and a platform and the cabs are scrapped. If that isn't hatred I don't know what is.

Most 66 series tractors were open station, but if it had a cab and you didn't like it you could do something about it. Literally EVERY 86 series had a cab (with or without windows for the nitpickers) until the 786 (also for the nitpickers), and if you didn't like it all you could do is suffer and complain.

I just don't buy into this mentality that because it's red I have to love every aspect of it unconditionally and turn a blind eye to its faults to the point of attacking anyone who dares point them out.

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16 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Most 66 series tractors were open station, but if it had a cab and you didn't like it you could do something about it.

First off, we are talking new. I guarantee no one was buying a brand new tractor with a cab in the 70s was immediately pulling the cab. The cabs got pulled after they were beat into the ground years after the fact. 

Another thing is just because in your area they were all open station, it doesn't mean that was the case everywhere.  Here in my area i can think of 3 open station 66 series out of all the 66s ive seen ( and that has been quite a few over the years) and 2 of those were on the same farm. 

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No company had a quiet dust free cab in 1971 when the 66 series was introduced. They were all noisy and dusty at that time , judging any of them by what we have now is not a fair comparison. At the time, most farmers were just glad to be out of the elements and maybe if you had the money you'd spring for a heater. Air conditioning was unheard of around here, Dads first tractor with heat and air was a 74 1066 with a factory red cab and the air conditioner would freeze you out and the heater kept you warm in the winter. My two older brothers fought over who got to run it, it was by far superior to the cozy cab on the 966 and the year -a-round cab with suicide doors on the 1755 Oliver, neither of which had a heater because you see at the time that was a luxury that you didn't know you needed until you had one. Then along came a 1086 in 78 and another in 79, wow, now we've got a quiet cab withe heat and air. I dont ever remember hearing  any complaints about the steps or the shifters or the I can't see the drawbar, everybody liked them because they were quiet and then fought over who got to run them instead of the 1066. It's called progressive improvement and it has gotten us to where we are today. John Deere won the race with the SGB by about 3 1/2 years, somebody has to be first, that cab is not my cup of tea, I'll take an 86 series cab over it any day. Deere stuck with it for a long time and then the Magnum cab put Deere behind the 8 ball. Again, progressive improvement. 

       

 

 

 

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One thing I did like about the red 66 series cab was that the blower took in air from the front. As long as you had a good filter and the valves for the heater were turned off at the engine you would have cooler air blowing directly on you. 

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18 minutes ago, bkorth said:

No company had a quiet dust free cab in 1971 when the 66 series was introduced. They were all noisy and dusty at that time , judging any of them by what we have now is not a fair comparison. . 

 

D1E7456C-A54E-48C3-B6A9-CE590BBB18C1.jpeg
 

I disagree a little.   Our 1972 MF 1800 which came out in 1971 had a nice dust free tight sound deading cab.  Plus JD had plans to introduce the SGB on the 20 series which tells me JD had operator comfort on their minds long before IH did.  See picture.  Case and MM both had tractors in the 60s with isolated platforms which was the first step towards a good cab.  I don’t know why a company that engineered the TA, hydro tractors, 2+2s, rotary combines, and very fine engines, never put operator comfort near the top of their priorities.  The SGB wasn’t flawless but back in the 70s whenever someone bought one it was the talk of the neighborhood around here.  That curved glass made them futuristic looking.  

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4 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

 

D1E7456C-A54E-48C3-B6A9-CE590BBB18C1.jpeg
 

I disagree a little.   Our 1972 MF 1800 which came out in 1971 had a nice dust free tight sound deading cab.  Plus JD had plans to introduce the SGB on the 20 series which tells me JD had operator comfort on their minds long before IH did.  See picture.  Case and MM both had tractors in the 60s with isolated platforms which was the first step towards a good cab.  I don’t know why a company that engineered the TA, hydro tractors, 2+2s, rotary combines, and very fine engines, never put operator comfort near the top of their priorities.  The SGB wasn’t flawless but back in the 70s whenever someone bought one it was the talk of the neighborhood around here.  That curved glass made them futuristic looking.  

Our nearest neighbor to the east was all John Deere except for the L and La cases they had early on. They had a 450  IHC years ago. Our running joke was IH had one engineer who’s job it was to take anything that was easy and comfortable and make it non user friendly.

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2 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

 

D1E7456C-A54E-48C3-B6A9-CE590BBB18C1.jpeg

Well if they had it but didn't "introduce" it then that was their mistake, and quite frankly a moot point. Besides that I'm sure (almost) everyone on this forum understands that I was referring to actual production models. 

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22 minutes ago, bkorth said:

Well if they had it but didn't "introduce" it then that was their mistake, and quite frankly a moot point. Besides that I'm sure (almost) everyone on this forum understands that I was referring to actual production models. 

It wasn't a mistake.  I think it was smart on their part to wait for the 30 series to make more of an impact.  My point was if JD was designing the SGB in the late 60s ready to go, then IH really shouldn't have waited until 1976 to put their version on the market if they had the foresight back in the late 60s like JD did when it came to cabs. 

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28 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Our nearest neighbor to the east was all John Deere except for the L and La cases they had early on. They had a 450  IHC years ago. Our running joke was IH had one engineer who’s job it was to take anything that was easy and comfortable and make it non user friendly.

Funny.  They thought the 450 was uncomfortable to drive??  Was it a wheat land?  Case LA and 500s for that matter to me were not that comfortable to run.   I never cared for the way IH threw levers all over the place but I did grow up on JD first.  

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Wow bloody battle, this reminds me of a 1066 vs. 4440 (unfair comparison) thread on Ag talk from several years ago.

Anyhow, stealing this photo from BBG and looking at it I’m wondering if several of you wouldn’t be wining if there was tilt steering in the 86’s to make for more clearance getting in and out of the seat. If every time you got in or out the steering wheel was closer to the dash it would make more room to get in without having to move into the shift levers and seat. Does that make sense? Because no one who used the right side, if they did, complained about hitting anything because of more room, therefore if for tilt steering there would be that much clearance to the left side. Just a perspective.

No matter how good the sound-gard was, it wasn’t exactly convenient to get in and out of either. IH at least was closer to a straight shot in and out. 

image.jpeg.e948168f7e595224880a17a59394b570.jpeg

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66 tractors still earn their keep, that cannot be denied,  BUT.....many that are losing their cabs are for show/fun/light duty work......not day in day out chiseling in all weather.....those machines keep their cabs, worn out or not.

I have always said, we collect what we grew up on.  There are fewer steel wheeled tractors at shows because those that grew up on them are gone.....fewer Ms and Hs unless they are special or "grandpa's"....lots of 56 and 66 tractors....all done up nice.....because those who grew up on them have the means to restore them (and haul them to shows).   66's are becoming "fun" tractors (with no cabs) and 86's are grinding it out on secondary jobs.

The inability to remove the expensive to restore cab on an 86 means they continue to take a beating for all of their perceived short comings, and continue to not become "fun" tractors......that combined with them still being the "beater tractor" on big farms means they constantly get compared to the newer cabs.....

Really isn't fair to judge them by today's standards.......it still beats being out in the weather, especially for the smaller farmers who are happy to have such a "nice" big tractor to do their work.

 

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Dad traded in his '75 red cab 1066 for a '78 4440, because of the cab.

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15 minutes ago, IHhogfarmer said:

No matter how good the sound-gard was, it wasn’t exactly convenient to get in and out of either.

Concur, having jumped in and out of a owl cage a few times this winter.  Didn’t take the time to try understand why but it just is more awkward to climb in and out of than it looks like it should be.  

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I really wish they had put tilt wheel in the 86 from the beginning.

But I like two doors and split controls. When running a loader I shift with the left while operating the hydraulic levers with the right. When planting I stop at the end of the row, pickup the planter with my right hand while shifting from high range to low with the left. When these tractors were new they were used alot for cultivating and I used the same method.

I think the sound guard cabs are nice once you are in the seat but it's a pain getting there!

IMHO YMMV

Thx-Ace 

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1 hour ago, IHhogfarmer said:

Wow bloody battle, this reminds me of a 1066 vs. 4440 (unfair comparison) thread on Ag talk from several years ago.

Anyhow, stealing this photo from BBG and looking at it I’m wondering if several of you wouldn’t be wining if there was tilt steering in the 86’s to make for more clearance getting in and out of the seat. If every time you got in or out the steering wheel was closer to the dash it would make more room to get in without having to move into the shift levers and seat. Does that make sense? Because no one who used the right side, if they did, complained about hitting anything because of more room, therefore if for tilt steering there would be that much clearance to the left side. Just a perspective.

No matter how good the sound-gard was, it wasn’t exactly convenient to get in and out of either. IH at least was closer to a straight shot in and out. 

image.jpeg.e948168f7e595224880a17a59394b570.jpeg

What  brochure is this from?

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Every 66 series we took in on trade in the 1990's got the cab pulled(factory, YAR, Hiniker) and fenders put on. We found they brought more money as open stations.

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23 minutes ago, acem said:

I really wish they had put tilt wheel in the 86 from the beginning.

But I like two doors and split controls. When running a loader I shift with the left while operating the hydraulic levers with the right.

How are you steering???  I guess I prefer the "JD" method.  You don’t have to take your hand off the steering wheel.  Left hand on the steering wheel all times.  And everything else on the right side were you barely have to move your arm/hand from joystick to shift lever.  Don't tell anybody but our 4020 was actually like an 86 with the hydraulics left of the dash and shifter on the right side.  But our next two loader tractors which was a JD 2950 and then a JD 3255 had the joystick near the FR shifter.  More convenient to operate for me anyway 

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2 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

How are you steering???  I guess I prefer the "JD" method.  Left hand on the steering wheel all times.  And everything else on the right side were you barely have to move your arm/hand from joystick to shift lever.  Don't tell anybody but our 4020 was actually like an 86 with the hydraulics left of the dash and shifter on the right side.  But our next two loader tractors which was a JD 2950 and then a JD 3255 had the joystick near the FR shifter.  More convenient to operate.  

I am stopped while shifting. I don't need my hand on the steering wheel.

I've never spent alot of time on a 4020 but I cultivated I don't know how many acres for a neighbor on his jd 2510 (diesel, wide front, sychro). I was just a big kid and it was over 40 years ago. I don't remember exactly how the levers were but it worked pretty good. I do remember really well the time I took out a mailbox with the 6rw cultivator going down a road. The brakes on the 2510 weren't so good...

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International Harvester had the 86 cab in the design stages long before it came out. Was a good cab and still is. The doors are not backwards either. You can stand on the ground and reach all the controls from outside, talk about handy! Now, what was really important to a farm in 1976? Getting the work done, or worrying about how comfortable the driver was? Comfort of the driver did not put bushels in the bin. We can go on forever here bashing the 86 cab or not. It is a good cab period. Now there are those who are going to argue endlessly about how bad it was and continually beat up International Harvester for everything they supposedly did wrong. Fact is this is Red Power, we do love our Internationals with all their flaws or lack of them. I really do not understand why it has to go on and on and how hard some try to prove to us that some other color or kind was better. Maybe, maybe not. We don't need that here nor do we want it or enjoy it. So post some pictures of your IH stuff out farming and doing what it was built for, or parading down main in it's church clothes and be done already! Like another color? Fine, go to their forum and talk about it.

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9 hours ago, acem said:

What  brochure is this from?

Probably one of the last from 1981 I would guess. It’s the same the BBG shared on page 4 I think?

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12 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

Got it.  I guess that’s a reflection on the internal differences between a JD and IH transmission.  

Interesting. 

I always stop my vehicles before shifting from forward to reverse. Whether it's a tractor, truck, skidder, combine, etc with a manual, power shift, automatic or hydrostatic transmission. 

 

 

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It would have been good if they offered a power shift speed transmission. They could have easily fit a 4 speed power shift in the space of the speed transmission, maybe 8 speed. It would be an upgrade option like JD and case offered. IH had power shift technology in their construction side.

I guess marketing thought it wouldn't make enough money or they thought the hydro 186 covered that market segment.

Thx-Ace 

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I never thought getting into a 66 series cab was any harder than the SGC other than better steps on the JD, you have to go in and around. same on both 

This illustrates the same debate imho. You won't change the Pete and Volvo guys opinion either. lots of Pete cab haters out there but they wouldn't be caught dead in a Volvo

 

863.jpg

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