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Pole barn build questions


IH Blood 1206

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6 hours ago, brewcrew said:

I’m curious- how deep do you sink the bolts for a hoist? They poured a solid six inches in my shop (no I didn’t measure it like that) and the in floor is only an inch or so. I wouldn’t think you would have to worry about it at that depth?

It depends on the anchor type, generally 3-4" deep, some use epoxy now

If you want to know where the tubing is put the heat on and throw snow or ice chips down in the area and watch where it melts away first 

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11 hours ago, acem said:

What kind of tubing do you put in the slab to heat it?

Nobody does that here but it would be nice.

 

11 hours ago, Gearclash said:

Pex.  I think there is a specific Pex for it anymore.  

Use type PEX with an oxygen barrier.  I recommend type A pex which is normally sold at plubing supply houses, the type B and C sold at the box stores is not always compatible with the PEX connection systems. 
 

if you use 1/2 inch keep the loops under 250 foot

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On 2/2/2023 at 1:21 PM, DT Fan said:

Keep the ideas coming, kind of working on a new shop myself.

Bitty, I couldn't agree more. A man needs to live within his means! I would love to have a 60x80 shop but can not justify the cost. Mine will (hopefully) be 48'x56' with 24' of cold storage on the North end. Got one estimate for this last November, other builders around here don't seem like they are interested in my money??? Morton guy came out and looked at the site, talked quite awhile. Said he would get me a quote, that was about two months ago. Never seen a thing.

Typical around here as well.  

 

On 2/3/2023 at 4:55 AM, TeachersPet1066 said:

We went to 100 because it was very little more money but that was a year before Covid.  Doors at each end make it nice to pull equipment straight through.  Also agree with above with drip barrier.

54852BCA-17D7-4755-8AE1-EB3000BE171C.jpeg

you gonna put anything in there or just leave it empty????

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14 hours ago, acem said:

What kind of tubing do you put in the slab to heat it?

Nobody does that here but it would be nice.

I’ve actually talked to guys closer to your latitude that don’t like in floor heat. The reason was that they didn’t find it efficient for their level of heating needs. That was the only time I’ve ever heard anything negative about in floor other than price.

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1 hour ago, brewcrew said:

I’ve actually talked to guys closer to your latitude that don’t like in floor heat. The reason was that they didn’t find it efficient for their level of heating needs. That was the only time I’ve ever heard anything negative about in floor other than price.

I understand that it's not as necessary but I've worked on cold slabs and warm slabs.

When I build another shop or house it will have a heated slab. 

It's not that expensive. The problem seems to be contractors don't know how so they won't do it. Then they make up reasons why you don't need it. I've run into this mentality on numerous projects. 

Next time I'll do it myself...

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1 hour ago, acem said:

I understand that it's not as necessary but I've worked on cold slabs and warm slabs.

When I build another shop or house it will have a heated slab. 

It's not that expensive. The problem seems to be contractors don't know how so they won't do it. Then they make up reasons why you don't need it. I've run into this mentality on numerous projects. 

Next time I'll do it myself...

IF you can, use 5/8" PEX instead of 1/2" PEX, much lower pump needs. You might need to order it ahead of time. (to confuse things, 1/2" PEX is 5/8" OD, and 5/8" PEX is 3/4" OD)

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2 hours ago, acem said:

I understand that it's not as necessary but I've worked on cold slabs and warm slabs.

When I build another shop or house it will have a heated slab. 

It's not that expensive. The problem seems to be contractors don't know how so they won't do it. Then they make up reasons why you don't need it. I've run into this mentality on numerous projects. 

Next time I'll do it myself...

Easy to do. Get 5x10 steel mesh mats , start laying down the PEX and zip tie it in place. Our contractor put tiny (cinder) blocks under the wire sheets to hold it up to the middle of the concrete 

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7 hours ago, brewcrew said:

I’ve actually talked to guys closer to your latitude that don’t like in floor heat. The reason was that they didn’t find it efficient for their level of heating needs. That was the only time I’ve ever heard anything negative about in floor other than price.

now there’s outdoor resets and that’s changing. boilers can fire very low percentages

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3 hours ago, AKwelder said:

IF you can, use 5/8" PEX instead of 1/2" PEX, much lower pump needs. You might need to order it ahead of time. (to confuse things, 1/2" PEX is 5/8" OD, and 5/8" PEX is 3/4" OD)

and 5/8” (here anyways) can run 333’ loop— no waste. may (probably ) not the case everywhere

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I have never hear of 5/8” PEX before. Always worked with 1/2, 3/4, 1 inch. Truth is I really don’t like working with the 3/4 and 1”, unless the runs are straight. Rather go with PVC if the lines need to be that large. 

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18 hours ago, zleinenbach said:

now there’s outdoor resets and that’s changing. boilers can fire very low percentages

Condensing boilers

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9 hours ago, hardtail said:

Condensing boilers

Condensing and modulating 

 

it sure is a lot fancier than using a fireplace 

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I added on to my existing 42x72 building. Bumped it out to 60x96 with an 18x30 lean to for full kitchen/game area to hang out in. I made a 60x60 of the main building a shop. 60x36 cold storage with a smaller door between the two. I don't store or work on large machinery here, mostly for smaller projects and cars. I researched several different options for insulating/HVAC. I found everyone says spray foam and in floor heat. They usually aren't the ones writing the checks. 

Just my personal opinion here and I wrote the checks for what I did. R19 walls are R19 regardless of materials used if installed properly. After pricing out spray foam and recovering from sticker shock I went with the large rolls of fiberglass. 6' X 60' rolls from Menards. Lowes and Home Depot probably can get the same. Vapor barrier on the interior with all seams taped. For the attic I just used blow in up to about an R45ish with the vapor barrier under it.

For the floor I priced out doing in floor heat mostly myself. I figured I would be pushing 10k by the time I set up 2 zones for the heating (shop and kitchen area). I talked to my HVAC guy that services the house about the cost of doing an air handler/ AC unit for cooling my space. That was going to run close to 8k. I ended up insulating my slab with 2" foam underneath and all around the edges. 100k BTU home furnace with AC unit that set me back 11k for heating and cooling. 

This winter has been fairly mild up til now here. So far for this 1st heating season i have used 300 gallons of LP keeping the shop at 65°.

Tonight I opened it for a while to run our 2 trucks inside. Within minutes of closing the door the snow and ice were melting off. The furnace kicked on but the shop did not feel colder. 

My opinion which is worth what you paid for it. Insulate the building to what your area recommends for R values. There is a point of diminishing returns. Spend a little extra in the attic. Heat rises. Make sure it is sealed up tight. Insulate your slab the best you can. Make sure the edges are insulated all around. It is a large heat sink. Slow to warm and slow to cool.

With in floor heat you will have to spend a chunk of money if you want the space cool and dry during the summer months. I plan to keep some nicer lumber on hand for random woodworking projects so need to keep the humidity levels down. I don't care for hot weather so AC is a must.

Spray foam is nice but the price tag is steep. If you are going that route you should put house wrap inside your tin so you can replace damaged exterior metal panels without having to open up internal walls to replaced the foam stuck to the exterior panels. 

 

At the end of the day it is your checking account. Spend it how you want. This is how I did mine. I don't have unlimited funds.

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On 1/13/2024 at 3:40 PM, 1586 Jeff said:

What is a condensing boiler?

A boiler that can run at temperatures cold enough for the water vapor in the exhaust to condense. On floor heat you do not need high temperatures so if the boiler runs colder you get more heat out of the combustion and are more efficient. The boiler can also sit and not be kept at temperature until needed. There are formulas but as a boiler runs below 135* it gains efficiency with a ratio of 1% for every so many degrees.

 

add to this modulating boilers, that can run at an adjusted rate of fire (they have a throttle) and you can really gain efficiency 

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On 1/13/2024 at 8:01 PM, rrr4quality said:

Is anyone using a wood boiler for their in floor heat?

We have that. Need a mixing valve to reduce temperature at the manifold for the circulators . 

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And concrete. You get one shot to do it right. Go thicker. Rebar not mesh. Saw cut it right away same day or next morning early. It will crack so get the cuts in it while it is really green to control them. Caulk the cuts when it has cured. Go deep in the area of your lift. It doesn't cost that much more.

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On 1/16/2024 at 9:32 AM, AKwelder said:

A boiler that can run at temperatures cold enough for the water vapor in the exhaust to condense. On floor heat you do not need high temperatures so if the boiler runs colder you get more heat out of the combustion and are more efficient. The boiler can also sit and not be kept at temperature until needed. There are formulas but as a boiler runs below 135* it gains efficiency with a ratio of 1% for every so many degrees.

 

add to this modulating boilers, that can run at an adjusted rate of fire (they have a throttle) and you can really gain efficiency 

Off topic but had 2 of them in 2 different properties.  Weil McClain models.  Despite the internet thrashing on these we never had much trouble with them.

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55 minutes ago, hobbyfarm said:

Off topic but had 2 of them in 2 different properties.  Weil McClain models.  Despite the internet thrashing on these we never had much trouble with them.

I heard many who agree.  Seems a select few are dumpster fires that the get posted all over the internet.

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This is one area where we got screwed again in the metric system, rebar used to be sold in Imperial sizes now it is mm and we get shorted, I would use 5/8" minimum for a shop, I would say 1/2" is suitable for houses and sidewalks barely. After many projects I have had much better outcomes using only the heavier and I used a pretty intensive grid pattern.

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