Farming Enthusiast Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I know it's probably tough to find guys with real world comparisons being there weren't many D21s made and the hp numbers are a little lopsided but how did a 1256 stack up to a series 2 back in the day. Nebraska shows a 1256 actually out pulled the series 2 when they were tested without ballast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahamfireman Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 The problem is once a farmer drove the IH, there was no way in Heck he was going to get on that AC and farm. You might get lucky and find an AC guy that jumped to IH, but odds are they'll never admit they used to farm with an AC!!!!! 3 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farming Enthusiast Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, brahamfireman said: The problem is once a farmer drove the IH, there was no way in Heck he was going to get on that AC and farm. You might get lucky and find an AC guy that jumped to IH, but odds are they'll never admit they used to farm with an AC!!!!! Last night I googled the question and ended up on a AC forum. I didn't find an exact comparison but what I did find was absolute garbage. One guy said he's seen a 190xt "outperform" 1206 and 6030 owners were scared of 220s. Now, I'll admit I am a little biased towards the brands I like but I'm not gonna convince myself of anything near like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bud guy Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Here is link to that AC forum page. AC guys got to be ashamed with spewing some of that crap https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/ac-220-compared-to-other-brands-in-1970_topic33323.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farming Enthusiast Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said: Here is link to that AC forum page. AC guys got to be ashamed with spewing some of that crap https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/ac-220-compared-to-other-brands-in-1970_topic33323.html That's the one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitty Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 minutes ago, Farming Enthusiast said: Last night I googled the question and ended up on a AC forum. I didn't find an exact comparison but what I did find was absolute garbage. One guy said he's seen a 190xt "outperform" 1206 and 6030 owners were scared of 220s. Now, I'll admit I am a little biased towards the brands I like but I'm not gonna convince myself of anything near like that. We bought a new 6080 in '81 , new 8050 MFD PS in '87 . We traded a 656 hydro on the 6080 and a 1066 on the 8050 . You had to be close enough to plug in the AC tractors in cold weather about 50° F warmer than the IH would start in easily. Those pumpkins weren't half the tractor the IH was at least in our experience.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillman Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 ^ bitty can do my talking here silliness in the highest degree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowaboy1965 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Growing up dad had 2 diff 190s over the years and a D21 as well as a 7040 and later a 7060. I have never been on a 1256 or 1206 either so I can't give direct experience. The orange ones were allright. We liked them at the time anyway but after being around a few red ones I like em better. The 21 was a brute and at the time a powerful tractor for us. But I would put my money on a red one now. Tho I like em all truthfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farming Enthusiast Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 7 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said: Growing up dad had 2 diff 190s over the years and a D21 as well as a 7040 and later a 7060. I have never been on a 1256 or 1206 either so I can't give direct experience. The orange ones were allright. We liked them at the time anyway but after being around a few red ones I like em better. The 21 was a brute and at the time a powerful tractor for us. But I would put my money on a red one now. Tho I like em all truthfully. I would say I like a few of each brand as well. I almost bought a D17 last summer to do some pulling with. I'm thinking I probably should have because it went cheap. Other than the wd45 I don't think you'll find a tractor with as much hp/pound out of the box. I think the D21 is impressive looking 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dinan Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 The D21’s definitely have the Muscle Tractor look!! Those big chrome grills helped make them look tough! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehammer Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I’ve spent a little time on a 190XT and a 200. They were decent working machines but always seemed very spartan to me. Of the AC tractors I always liked the look of a D21 but have never run one. There are a couple in the area though. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmall Doctor Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 “Almost Chalmers” 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12_Guy Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 If A-C could have come up with an actual live PTO, they would have had a decent tractor. My experience comes from a 185 we had and a 6080 rental when the 185 laid down. IMHO, the 185 was pretty no nonsense and fairly heavy duty. The 6080 seemed more refined and lightweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
766 Man Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, 12_Guy said: If A-C could have come up with an actual live PTO, they would have had a decent tractor. My experience comes from a 185 we had and a 6080 rental when the 185 laid down. IMHO, the 185 was pretty no nonsense and fairly heavy duty. The 6080 seemed more refined and lightweight. The 6080 rear end came from Fiat and was powered by a F2 combine engine. Never had one but they seemed like a fair tractor. The golden age for AC around here was the WD and WD45 through the D series. Almost as many WD and WD45 tractors around here as IH M's and JD A's. A lot of farms were hard scrabble around here and farmers were very keen to saving a few hundred dollars. Powerful but not very ergonomic. A lot of Gleaner combines sold again due to price. Made lighter than most of their competition so they were not as durable. AC had their followers right into 1980 and the grain embargo. The AC dealers here in NY were strong and generally ran just behind the IH and JD dealers in terms of volume. The grain embargo, tightening of credit with farm lenders, losing sidelines such as New Holland, and the acquisition by Deutz killed most of them off by 1987. A select few were able to reinvent themselves as Ford New Holland dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injpumped Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Technically the D21 series 2 was a higher hp tractor at 127 pto, and the 1256 was 116 pto. Now I know as well as anyone, few of them dyno'd that low, but that also applies to the D21 as well. You guys laugh at the comments over on the AC forum, but the fact is true, a JD 5020 is a big turd and so is a bone stock 6030. Now, few are left stock. The same has been said on this very page about a 1066, or 1456, 1466, etc about outworking a bone stock 6030, 5020 or 45/4620. Those Deeres were big heavy underpowered tractors. I like tractors in general, and grew up on AC, then to an IH farm after we sold our farm. I've probably spent more hours running red tractors than any other color. They are all great in their own way. People were even knocking AC for not having live pto, but the D21 always had live independent pto lol! When the 220 replaced the 21 it was rated at 135, which is right where the 1456 was, and I'm sure they would both run around a 4620 also at 135! I will say the AC and IH will be prone to final drive issues because of the torque rise, and still a bull gear design, where deere had inboard planetaries, and also no torque rise to hurt anything lol! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippy5488 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 growing up a neighbor had a 806 with m&w turbo on it. it ran really good. he bought a 210 allis the 806 would out work it on the same disc. the main reason was the 210 didnt have a gear where it needed one. either to fast and not enough power or way slow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
234-IA Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 back in the day I spent a little time hauling corn silage for neighbors who were big AC people- got to run one of their D21s and a 220. I thought they were real solid beasts and fun to run for a change. They had a nice roomy platform and sat a little lower than my 1256 does- easier to get on and off- but they were a lot less nimble and it was kind of weird on a tractor that big and "new" to have an M style gearshift coming up between your feet rather than on a console like the IHs or Deeres I was used to. They were cold blooded too. I remember coming in their yard one morning and there were extension cords going everywhere to block heaters- I wouldn't have even *thought* about having the 12 plugged in. edit: to the question asked, I haven't much doubt those ACs would have outdone my 12 in a tillage situation- they loaded the tires *and* turned up the fuel- my 12 just has one set of wheel weights and is only set at 135-ish, which is all I ever needed out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmall Doctor Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 This reminds me of a story that our member Blaine Griggs wrote many years ago about a tractor pull back in the day that came down to a D21 and an 856... The 856 walked away with the sled and the packed crowd went wild! This the link that I last had for it, but is no longer working. Maybe someone can locate it. It was a great, lengthy story. http://www.toytractorshow.com/856_puller.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale560 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Guy we used to do a bunch of work for has a 220 and a 45 or 4620. He likes them both. But they are just chore tractors now. One on a feed grinder other one on a mixer wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillman Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 21 hours ago, Big Bud guy said: Here is link to that AC forum page. AC guys got to be ashamed with spewing some of that crap https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/ac-220-compared-to-other-brands-in-1970_topic33323.html I don't want to trash the Allis too much 190-200s are my least favorite. There is a reason they are very cheap but even the 7000- series are. I secretly would like a 7050 maroon belly because it has the big shifter on the floor and I almost have good memories in one this statement was the funniest to me but if a guy believes it I don't want to rain on his parade Heck, the One-Ninety XT diesels were outperforming IH 1206's. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injpumped Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Honestly, a 190XT that's been mildly tweaked (most were) would run right with a bone stock 1206 @112hp(most were also turned up). Problem is the 190XT is a 100hp tractor trying to do the work of a 125hp tractor and they just don't fair out well in the drivetrain dept. Same happens to the 1206 when it's tweaked to 150hp as many were/are. The 190D was a great trouble free tractor, but the turbo added to the XT made them problematic in the trans and rearend. When the 190XT came out, it kinda put the D21 series 1 non turbo tractors to shame, 103 pto hp. Kinda like the 5010/5020, a big heavy turd. The Early D21 with turbo added was also plagued with final drive issues. To be fair, I've seen a fair amount of 1086/1486 rearends get shelled. Any of these old tractors can be either nice if taken care of, or a piece of crap from neglect and abuse. Sadly the more a tractor cost, the better it seemed to be taken care of, for the most part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick G. Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I remember a guy in our area bought a brand new Allis Chalmers 200. Then he proceeded to pull a PTO shaft driven IH Cyclo planter with it. He wasn’t very happy with the way it operated on that Cyclo planter. The Cyclo would quit running when you stopped at the headlands to raise and lower the planter. I took a crack at it for him even though I was just in high school. I had to agree it was a crap set up. I experimented with it by trying to not push the clutch all the way in when stopping to raise and lower the planter at the headlands so the PTO would stay running, but that was an absolute pain, and we also worried that that technique would burn up the clutch on the tractor. He put up with it for that entire planting season, but later that summer he traded it in for an IH 666 Diesel Hydro for his planter tractor. Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farming Enthusiast Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Injpumped said: Honestly, a 190XT that's been mildly tweaked (most were) would run right with a bone stock 1206 @112hp(most were also turned up). Problem is the 190XT is a 100hp tractor trying to do the work of a 125hp tractor and they just don't fair out well in the drivetrain dept. Same happens to the 1206 when it's tweaked to 150hp as many were/are. The 190D was a great trouble free tractor, but the turbo added to the XT made them problematic in the trans and rearend. When the 190XT came out, it kinda put the D21 series 1 non turbo tractors to shame, 103 pto hp. Kinda like the 5010/5020, a big heavy turd. The Early D21 with turbo added was also plagued with final drive issues. To be fair, I've seen a fair amount of 1086/1486 rearends get shelled. Any of these old tractors can be either nice if taken care of, or a piece of crap from neglect and abuse. Sadly the more a tractor cost, the better it seemed to be taken care of, for the most part. My wife's grandpa traded in a 185D for a 190xt gas and said that was a huge mistake. He said the 185 was a much better overall tractor and even out pulled the 190xt. I assume the 190g isn't the tractor that that 190d is just a reference. I don't recall how much more hp a D17 was rated for than a wd45 but he said he couldn't tell a difference. He had both in gas versions. He said the D17 and wd45 were his favorite. I can get on board with tractors overcoming a 10-15 maybe even 20 hp difference with gearing, lugging ability etc but a 135 hp 220 "putting the fear of god" into 175hp 6030s is a little much for me. I could be wrong though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH Forever Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 When I was a kid, this was probably the early to mid 80's, my favorite super-stock pulling tractor was "The Landhandler". It was a D21 sponsored by Dieke Implement in Waverly. My Dad's cousin was a salesman there so I was able to hear alot of stories about the tractor. My Dad was also interested in buying a D21 but his cousin, the AC salesman, talked him out of it. If I remember correctly it was due to his concern with rearend or driveline issues. So my Dad bought a 1066 instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitty Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 The reversible pto stub shafts were notorious for shearing the bolts off. They used 7/16" diameter bolts and should have driven by a spline also or cog as a little too much HP and time and Wala you are replacing the bolts again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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