N9438D Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 What 12V starters will fit a 400 or 450v? Will a starter off a 460 fit a 400 mechanically, in terms of bolt spacing and gears? It looks like it would at a glance, but I haven't tried. And are there any other models that would be compatible? I don’t care that it won’t look original, but I’ve had a couple of bad quality overhauls and I’m tired of messing with them. I also feel like the design of the solenoid on the 460’s starter is of better quality. At least the one I have seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWV Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Have used 350 and 450 that came with 12 -volt. 400 and 450 diesel starters. Several others will work but never bolted one on myself. Have used several 6-volt IH starters with 12- volt and little problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1958560 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Dads 450 has a starter from a 560 diesel on it. His 450 diesel has a starter from an 806 on it. I'm not sure a 460 starter will work, it's from a smaller frame tractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 https://www.messicks.com/commoncatalog?vendor=cas&modelId=142761. Line # 122 cranking motor 12V. The 450 I had was factory 12V. As said if you find a 6 volt it will work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9438D Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 How many amps does a 6V starter need vs how many amps for the 12V? I’m fighting a starting issue because the ignition voltage drops too much at cranking and I don’t have a spark. I’m hoping the 12V starter will consume less amps and raise the ignition voltage enough to fix my issue. I’m not sure yet if the issue is the coil or the electronic ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, N9438D said: How many amps does a 6V starter need vs how many amps for the 12V? I’m fighting a starting issue because the ignition voltage drops too much at cranking and I don’t have a spark. I’m hoping the 12V starter will consume less amps and raise the ignition voltage enough to fix my issue. I’m not sure yet if the issue is the coil or the electronic ignition. Can't answer your question directly. The 6v running on 12v is certainly capable of drawing more amps than the 12v but the increased power means cranking voltage is apt to be higher . Your ignition problem describes a 6v coil with resistor on 12v with no resistor bypass when cranking. Easiest fix is a straight 12v coil. Not the only option though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9438D Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 On 1/3/2023 at 4:38 PM, DWV said: Have used 350 and 450 that came with 12 -volt. 400 and 450 diesel starters. Several others will work but never bolted one on myself. Have used several 6-volt IH starters with 12- volt and little problems. 5 hours ago, snoshoe said: Can't answer your question directly. The 6v running on 12v is certainly capable of drawing more amps than the 12v but the increased power means cranking voltage is apt to be higher . Your ignition problem describes a 6v coil with resistor on 12v with no resistor bypass when cranking. Easiest fix is a straight 12v coil. Not the only option though. I’m not following your second paragraph. I have a 12V coil on it. However, I did just temporarily install a 6V coil, resistor, and a bypass wire hooked to the starter solenoid, all off a different tractor. I’ll see how that works in the morning when it’s cold again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWV Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 11 hours ago, N9438D said: I’m not following your second paragraph. I have a 12V coil on it. However, I did just temporarily install a 6V coil, resistor, and a bypass wire hooked to the starter solenoid, all off a different tractor. I’ll see how that works in the morning when it’s cold again. Don't think a resister is supposed to be used with 12- volt electronic ignition. When the 350 and 450 started using 12- volt and used same starter number for gasoline the starter magnetic switch had another terminal and wire from it bypassed the resister to 6 volt coil and helped with ignition spark when cranking. Switch with extra small terminal can be added to a 6 -volt 400 gas starter and do the same thing if wired. But like I said think not with E.I. Have used wire with diode from starter end of stater switch on H and M to bypass resister using 6 volt coil when switching to 12 volt with points. Can tell the difference in cold weather starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale560 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 We used to keep different tooth drives around. 706 diesels had a shorter 12 volt starter sometime. You could swap drives around and modify end caps sometimes and get starters to really spin a tractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Doctor Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/4/2023 at 12:42 PM, N9438D said: How many amps does a 6V starter need vs how many amps for the 12V? I’m fighting a starting issue because the ignition voltage drops too much at cranking and I don’t have a spark. I’m hoping the 12V starter will consume less amps and raise the ignition voltage enough to fix my issue. I’m not sure yet if the issue is the coil or the electronic ignition. Voltage drop comes from bad grounds, old corroded, or breaks, in the wiring. Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to fix the voltage drop than the starter? Get a good 12V to the ignition and your issue should be resolved unless the coil or electronic ignition is bad. Did someone put a resistor on this that is bad? Run a jumper wire from the battery to the coil and see if that fixes it. If it does, you then know it is in the wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9438D Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 I just thought I should update this with the resolve. I replaced my 3.0ohm 12V coil with a Pertronix Flamethrower 1.0 ohm coil and a resistor. The top resistor terminal has the ignition wire 12V and the Pertronix EI module red wire. The lower resistor terminal has the coil + wire. The coil + terminal has the resistor wire as well as a wire from the starter coil with an in-line diode to supply 12V during starting and bypass the coil. Then the Pertronix EI black wire goes to the coil -. I now have my tractor where it’ll start down to single digits on just a few compressions. I’m curious how cold it’ll start, but that’s the coldest it’s been since the work. I’m very pleased with my efforts. Thank you all for the guidance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickertoy Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 MY 450 HAS THE PETRONIX IGNITION AND FLAMETHROWER COIL AND WILL START WITH TEMPS BELOW ZERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redturbo Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 hours ago, N9438D said: I now have my tractor where it’ll start down to single digits on just a few compressions. I’m curious how cold it’ll start, but that’s the coldest it’s been since the work. How cold are you talking about? Converted a Super W6 to 12V & electronic & it will start up -13F without being plugged in. Any colder use a coolant heater with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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