Jump to content

stronger800

Recommended Posts

I called Napa  before they closed, even the old timer guy in there had no idea what I was talking about. Then I searched online and thought I had found a good part number that I could use at Advanced Auto, called them and they told me they would have to order one in and it would be $136. Working on an old tractor for a neighbor, he just needs something cheap to make it charge.  No lights. No accessories.  He has a single wire jobber  on it now that seems to fluctuate in performance. I did not have any tools when I had stopped in, but I hooked a test light up to it and it just flashes and flickers, no steady power. I even tried  to magnetic screwdriver test on the round cap (that I learned about on this forum) and that was not happening.   I question the integrity of his wire, I will run a new line over to the solenoid. But with my test light on the alternator lug itself, I don’t think that wire would have had any effect on it showing  power.  Oooo, let me add that his battery was 95% dead, and we started the machine off a jump pack.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wanted some 1/8th inch copper line to run a old-fashioned oil pressure gauge yesterday, Guy at  advanced auto told me they didn’t carry that and that the smallest they had was 3/16 copper fuel line. I’ve never actually seen copper fuel like, but  I suppose  that could be a thing.
So I went around the store and found the gauges -and then a coil of copper tubing below them and put it on the counter.  Years ago they had a big spool and would roll you off whatever you wanted 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've used the two wire plug alternators as a single wire type with no problem But when you full field the regulator it should run 15 volts and produce full amperage your alternator may need a bench test

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

called Napa  before they closed, even the old timer guy in there had no idea what I was talking about.

My Napa guys knew what I was talking about when I put one on the 806 a couple years ago. Ended up getting it at O'Reilly's as they had one in stock.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reman stuff is really questionable.

This is now done with cheap Chinesium parts that may or may not work from day one.

The quality is just garbage.

It is nothing to get two or three alternators before you get one that works.

Be careful, unless you are a dealer, Advance Auto will warranty only one time.

So when the 2nd one dies, you get to pay again.

I was told this and left, immediately.

I don't do a lot of business with them but they lost it all.

I used to overhaul these all the time. 

I can get kits from Ebay for $15 to turn a regular into a one wire. But you know they are Chinese.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been awhile ,we sold them at aZ . Only thing was they put a rubber isolated cap over case contact pins for lights and ? (Don’t remember S10. I think they were clocked at 12.

Also we could clock the case if we didn’t have the right angle in stock for contacts ,Handy as red green 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

That's fine because it's a mechanical operation to change it out. Just put on your "parts swapper" hat, take the old one out, and put the new one in the way the old one came out.

like Matt says its easy

 Only a few nuts and  screws to completely disassemble one

 only trick is to stick a little wire in the brush holder to hold brushes in place to re assemble second pick you can see I put a wire in the hole. Just put brushes in place and push wire flush

DSCI1459.JPG

DSCI1460.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually asked for an alternator for a 78 GMC 350, because we had one of those when I was a kid. And the guy at AutoZone told me it was $145 so I didn’t ask the number of terminals that it had. Ive clocked lots of the 10si alternators, I always want mine with the terminals facing up so they’re tucked under the hoods . But I’ve never attempted to take one apart to fix it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may be a good time to discuss why 1 wire alternators ... are NOT always the best choice?   Beside the Diode problem noted above....?

I have used them - in fact my combine is currently running one!  My Semi has one - OEM!   BUT - there are good reasons why they are not all made that way.

1) A typical alternator has 3 wires (besides the frame which provides the Ground):  

  1. A "charge control" wire from the key switch, usually also thru a indicator light - to turn on/off the alternator circuitry  
  2. A 12V sense wire run from a point near the batteries.
  3. A charging wire that runs from the charge post to a heavy battery connection (usually the starter solenoid "battery" post)

2) The single wire conversion

  • Eliminates #1 & #2 external wires.
  • Uses an add on internal resistor (little wire wound thing above in the pictures) to provide the #1 charge signal.
  • Jumps #2 to #3 internally.

This works fine - UNLESS you have one of the following.....

  1. There is an internal short in the alternator - not having the key switch involved can drain the battery overnight!
  2. The charging wire to the batteries is undersized or has bad connections, or the batteries are failing or very discharged.

The last one is the real problem.  Why?   It may look like the two wires (2 & 3) go the same place....BUT they are designed to do different jobs.

  • The # 3 wire carries the heavy charge current from the alternator to the batteries - there may be significant voltage drop from one end to the other, depending on wire size, length, how good any connections are.
  • The #2 wire (Battery sense wire) provides a "low current" control wire so the alternator regulator can better sense the actual voltage at the batteries.  No current load means no voltage drop - and poor connections won't matter as much.

Because a 1 wire alternator jumps these internally, the regulator is only sensing the voltage at the output post of the alternator.  A bad connection, a small wire, poor batteries drawing lots of current - all of those can totally screw up the "sampled" voltage - leading to overcharge, undercharge, no charge......   Poor batteries can lead to to the alternator not charging them up....

Worst case scenario you can:

  • Burn out the alternator thru trying to crank out too much current. 
  • Ruin the batteries by overcharging them

So, if you plan to install a 1 wire alternator - make sure you battery charge wire is in good shape, and all the connections to the batteries are good.   If the wire or connections are getting warm - fix them.    As long as thats all OK, that 1 wire may work out fine.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

This may be a good time to discuss why 1 wire alternators ... are NOT always the best choice?   Beside the Diode problem noted above....?

I have used them - in fact my combine is currently running one!  My Semi has one - OEM!   BUT - there are good reasons why they are not all made that way.

1) A typical alternator has 3 wires (besides the frame which provides the Ground):  

  1. A "charge control" wire from the key switch, usually also thru a indicator light - to turn on/off the alternator circuitry  
  2. A 12V sense wire run from a point near the batteries.
  3. A charging wire that runs from the charge post to a heavy battery connection (usually the starter solenoid "battery" post)

2) The single wire conversion

  • Eliminates #1 & #2 external wires.
  • Uses an add on internal resistor (little wire wound thing above in the pictures) to provide the #1 charge signal.
  • Jumps #2 to #3 internally.

This works fine - UNLESS you have one of the following.....

  1. There is an internal short in the alternator - not having the key switch involved can drain the battery overnight!
  2. The charging wire to the batteries is undersized or has bad connections, or the batteries are failing or very discharged.

The last one is the real problem.  Why?   It may look like the two wires (2 & 3) go the same place....BUT they are designed to do different jobs.

  • The # 3 wire carries the heavy charge current from the alternator to the batteries - there may be significant voltage drop from one end to the other, depending on wire size, length, how good any connections are.
  • The #2 wire (Battery sense wire) provides a "low current" control wire so the alternator regulator can better sense the actual voltage at the batteries.  No current load means no voltage drop - and poor connections won't matter as much.

Because a 1 wire alternator jumps these internally, the regulator is only sensing the voltage at the output post of the alternator.  A bad connection, a small wire, poor batteries drawing lots of current - all of those can totally screw up the "sampled" voltage - leading to overcharge, undercharge, no charge......   Poor batteries can lead to to the alternator not charging them up....

Worst case scenario you can:

  • Burn out the alternator thru trying to crank out too much current. 
  • Ruin the batteries by overcharging them

So, if you plan to install a 1 wire alternator - make sure you battery charge wire is in good shape, and all the connections to the batteries are good.   If the wire or connections are getting warm - fix them.    As long as thats all OK, that 1 wire may work out fine.

If you are using alternative type batteries, say deep cycle flooded lead acid, AGM or gelcell, charging voltage is more important and an external sense wire should always be used, also an adjustable voltage  regulator is commonly used.   In some cases those alternative type batteries can be very expensive. My group 31 starting battery cost less than $100. We run alternative AGM batteries on inverters. The AGM battery group 31's cost $240. each.  An equivalent Lithium technology battery is closer to $1000.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, stronger800 said:

This is on a diesel MF…..from the early 60’s.    

Well that simplifies things!!  Buy a standard 3 wire Delco 10si. Loop the sense wire to the main battery post of the alternator and run a feed wire from the dash-feed oil pressure switch under the oil pressure gauge to the field circuit wire at the alternator. Done. I despise 1 wire alternators. they are troublesome. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol. None of the dash wires are intact or functional.’ He’s got an automotive key switch (poorly fit into the hole even) wired to it with pieces of wire and wire nuts.  I could easily run a line to the ignition side of the key switch….but I was trying to touch/disturb  as little as possible. (He unhooks the batteries in all of his machines as he climbs off them….because he knows they are all “in need of work” let’s just say)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...