How do I reinstall an injection pump?

[Stickman4004]

I have fuel in my engine oil on a hydro 100. From what I have found, the best thing to do is to have the injection pump rebuilt. 
 

How do I reinstall the injection pump? How do i set the timing? I know nothing about this but I want to learn to do it right the first time. 

[Farmall Doctor]

Hire a mechanic… we need to eat too. Or if you are used to doing intricate mechanical work, buy a service manual, and we can all be helpful with the finer points. Oh, and you don’t have to start a new thread every time you have a new question about the same tractor. It will be easier for us and yourself to keep track of responses and information. 

[Matt Kirsch]

Just so you don't take that advice the wrong way, let me explain.

Installing an injection pump is not a simple process that you can practically sum up in a forum post in a way that someone could follow it as a blanket step-by-step process. It's like asking "How do I overhaul an engine?" You really need to have the reference in front of you.

Now from the way I understand it, the injection pump should come back from the rebuilder "timed." The key is getting the engine in the right position to match.

[1566Hog]

I thought the whole point of the Technical IH Talk forum was so that we didn’t have to hire a mechanic. I thought it was so we could ask questions to learn how to do things ourselves. 
I don’t agree that installing an injection pump on Hydro 100 is not easy. Sure, there is a few steps to take.  I learned how to reinstall the same injection pump by this exact forum.  There is also a YouTube video on it by someone reinstalling one out in a field on a 10 or 14 if I remember correctly. Don’t be afraid of it. I’m not a mechanic by trade, and thought it was a fairly simple process. 
I would encourage you to do it yourself. 

[Diesel Doctor]

A farmer brought in a Roosa Master pump with the head seized and the drive shaft twisted off.

I overhauled it and put a new shaft in it and offered to come put it on for him.

He informed me that he was smart enough to put a pump on.

I later found this pump ran for less than a minute, seized the head and again twisted the drive shaft.

Since I knew NOTHING, he took the pump to a reputable pump shop and they also rebuilt it.

That one also ran for less than a minute.

Since none of us knew NOTHING, he ordered a new one out of IH.

I told him I would put it on and he grumbled, NO.

I told him that if the new one also seized that he was out a lot of money and if I seized it, the shop was out the money.

He stormed out of the shop but later that day, the tractor appeared in the shop. (His billfold rubbing up against his sanity!)

I put the pump on and timed it. 

I rolled the flywheel back to recheck the timing and the pump continued to turn the same direction.

I pulled the pump off and slid a Crescent wrench on the pump drive shaft. (To this day, I check all drive shafts this way)

I could turn that shaft about 30 degrees with a loud clunk at each end.

I pulled the front cover off and found the pump drive gear bearings had failed and had pulled the retaining bolt right out of the block.

It was just floating around in there. ( How the farmer had me fix the timing gear is another story? )

The pump drive shaft cannot be out of round more than 0.003 so this floating gear was way over that.

The point is, there is a place to learn and a place to hire a pro and learn?

If you have never seen it done before, and do not know what to look for, then can you do it, probably yes.

But is it worth the gamble since a pro can have that put back on and running and timed in less than an hour.

Not that it is, but if something else is wrong, you are gambling with a lot of money.

Your choice!

 

[Injpumped]

Removal and installation tech advice is usually provided by the pump shop rebuilding it. Like mentioned above, us pump guys get blamed for a lot of issues that are actually installation error. This H100 wouldn't be subject to the above story, but there is a 50% chance you'll get it out of time lol!

[snoshoe]

Easiest to put in time before removal. There is a plug in pump mounting adapter that will reveal timing pointer and mark on drive hub. Here is where the 50 percent comes in. The pointer and mark will line up on number 1 and again on number 6. You can just remove at this point and reinstall when it comes back.  If the pump is at 1 and the engine is at 6. Once bled you will get fuel vapor out the exhaust but engine will not start. Line up pointer and mark again. Remove cover in front and three bolts from drive gear. Turn pump 1 revolution and reinstall bolts. Will now run. To avoid this you can remove side cover on pump to reveal mark on pump housing and one on face gear. They will not align when pointer and mark are but if face gear mark is visible. It is on number 1 if face gear mark is not visible. It is on number 6. Since this is a running engine you can tell without removing covers. Remove injection lines paying attention to which ports are number 1 and 4. Pull throttle open. Turn engine until fuel comes from number 4. Continue until pointer and mark are aligned. You're now on number 1

[brahamfireman]

11 hours ago, Injpumped said:

Removal and installation tech advice is usually provided by the pump shop rebuilding it. Like mentioned above, us pump guys get blamed for a lot of issues that are actually installation error. This H100 wouldn't be subject to the above story, but there is a 50% chance you'll get it out of time lol!

It's the 50, 50, 90 rule. 

If there's a 50/50 chance, 90% of the time it'll be wrong!!!!

[MarkG]

Another timing method is to remove the valve cover so you can see the rocker arms. When 6 is rocking your timed on number 1. 

[Binderoid]

On 11/23/2022 at 8:42 AM, Diesel Doctor said:

A farmer brought in a Roosa Master pump with the head seized and the drive shaft twisted off.

I overhauled it and put a new shaft in it and offered to come put it on for him.

He informed me that he was smart enough to put a pump on.

I later found this pump ran for less than a minute, seized the head and again twisted the drive shaft.

Since I knew NOTHING, he took the pump to a reputable pump shop and they also rebuilt it.

That one also ran for less than a minute.

Since none of us knew NOTHING, he ordered a new one out of IH.

I told him I would put it on and he grumbled, NO.

I told him that if the new one also seized that he was out a lot of money and if I seized it, the shop was out the money.

He stormed out of the shop but later that day, the tractor appeared in the shop. (His billfold rubbing up against his sanity!)

I put the pump on and timed it. 

I rolled the flywheel back to recheck the timing and the pump continued to turn the same direction.

I pulled the pump off and slid a Crescent wrench on the pump drive shaft. (To this day, I check all drive shafts this way)

I could turn that shaft about 30 degrees with a loud clunk at each end.

I pulled the front cover off and found the pump drive gear bearings had failed and had pulled the retaining bolt right out of the block.

It was just floating around in there. ( How the farmer had me fix the timing gear is another story? )

The pump drive shaft cannot be out of round more than 0.003 so this floating gear was way over that.

The point is, there is a place to learn and a place to hire a pro and learn?

If you have never seen it done before, and do not know what to look for, then can you do it, probably yes.

But is it worth the gamble since a pro can have that put back on and running and timed in less than an hour.

Not that it is, but if something else is wrong, you are gambling with a lot of money.

Your choice!

 

Could you tell the cause of the cause of failure when you took it apart? I took a seized pump from a 6.9  to a rebuilder,   he knew right away one of the water pump bolts was too long. Got back to the garage, sure enough, it had a new water pump installed. Customer said it ran about a mile after he put the pump on, then it quit.

[Matt Kirsch]

On 11/23/2022 at 8:26 AM, 1566Hog said:

I thought the whole point of the Technical IH Talk forum was so that we didn’t have to hire a mechanic. I thought it was so we could ask questions to learn how to do things ourselves.

This is the response I expected. People unnecessarily take such advice as an insult.

Yes, the forum is for asking questions, BUT there is a limit to what is practical to convey in a hand-typed forum post. Even you admit that you also referred to a youtube video. Those are often great. When you see something done, correctly, it takes a LOT of the fear and uncertainty out of the job.

Forums are more of a supplement to the process, not a replacement for the process.

There is a difference bewtween, "I'm at step 7 and it's a little unclear. Can someone clarify for me?" and "Give me all the steps and all the variables."

[DT Fan]

1 hour ago, Binderoid said:

Could you tell the cause of the cause of failure when you took it apart? I took a seized pump from a 6.9  to a rebuilder,   he knew right away one of the water pump bolts was too long. Got back to the garage, sure enough, it had a new water pump installed. Customer said it ran about a mile after he put the pump on, then it quit.

This is kind of a pet peeve of mine. An awful lot of people will just use whatever nuts/bolts are handy. Drives me crazy, taking something apart, say there's 9 nuts. Got the impact and 9/16 socket, get the first 8 off and someone threw in a heavy nut! Now I'm traipsing off to get a 5/8 or 11/16, I can't even remember. Bolts that are too long/short are another big problem as noted in the quoted post. Probably worse is the cotter-pin substitutes! Ok, end of rant.

Edit; The astute observer would notice lots of new fasteners on 'my stuff' when they visit. Have a very low tolerance for rusty stuff. I do keep most anything with IH on the head though.

[1566Hog]

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

This is the response I expected. People unnecessarily take such advice as an insult.

Yes, the forum is for asking questions, BUT there is a limit to what is practical to convey in a hand-typed forum post. Even you admit that you also referred to a youtube video. Those are often great. When you see something done, correctly, it takes a LOT of the fear and uncertainty out of the job.

Forums are more of a supplement to the process, not a replacement for the process.

There is a difference bewtween, "I'm at step 7 and it's a little unclear. Can someone clarify for me?" and "Give me all the steps and all the variables."

 

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

This is the response I expected. People unnecessarily take such advice as an insult.

Yes, the forum is for asking questions, BUT there is a limit to what is practical to convey in a hand-typed forum post. Even you admit that you also referred to a youtube video. Those are often great. When you see something done, correctly, it takes a LOT of the fear and uncertainty out of the job.

Forums are more of a supplement to the process, not a replacement for the process.

There is a difference bewtween, "I'm at step 7 and it's a little unclear. Can someone clarify for me?" and "Give me all the steps and all the variables."

Really, all there is to type out on installing an injection pump on a Hydro 100 is the timing process. That can be done with a few sentences. I would say everything else is self explanatory. Meaning, you took this injection line off, so put it back on where you took it off. The timing is something that will need to be explained, but can be easily done so in a paragraph, which was done in someone else’s post. 
Installing an Ambac 100 pump is not a 100 step process, it can be easily typed out. I don’t have any hard feelings towards anyone about any replies on this topic.  He is asking for info, so why not give the man some info?  If no one else wants to take the time to type out the timing process, I surely don’t mind doing it.