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Farmall 140 Transmission Noise


LipRipper3006
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Had a 140 brought to me with noise from the rear end. He suspected a bad bearing in the left final drive but I believe it something to do with the transmission. It makes noise in every gear with or without the clutch pressed but does not when in neutral rolling or still. I would say it sounds similar to normal whine but this is quite loud in person. He said he had gone through and changed all the fluids. I looked in through the fill plug and it looks clean in the case

Would this be from excessive wear on the gears or is this normal?

.

 

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I have no specific knowledge of those model tractors, but that sounds like gear whine in the tranny to me as well.   A badly out of spec pinion, would be my guess.   The problem here is finding it.  Also, a bearing could be out - letting a shaft move (say a bull pinion shaft) enough to growl when under load - but not when under no-load (coasting).

Probably gonna have to tear down the whole thing to find it.

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Top shaft Transmission bearings are noisy... my Farmall A sounds exactly the same. Does it still have the aluminum oil slinger gear inside? My A is old enough that it never had the oiler gear, it spent a ton of time doing stationary PTO work, which left the top bearings to run dry for an extended period of time. Sometimes the aluminum slinger gear would bust a tooth or three and a cheap fix for the clatter was to bust the rest of it out of there and keep driving. 

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1 hour ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Top shaft Transmission bearings are noisy... my Farmall A sounds exactly the same. Does it still have the aluminum oil slinger gear inside? My A is old enough that it never had the oiler gear, it spent a ton of time doing stationary PTO work, which left the top bearings to run dry for an extended period of time. Sometimes the aluminum slinger gear would bust a tooth or three and a cheap fix for the clatter was to bust the rest of it out of there and keep driving. 

Yes the oiler is there and looks to be in good condition. From what i understood this was a cultivating tractor so while it was running it was in motion. As far as the bearings go if they were noisy wouldn't it make noise in neutral? I seem to only have the noise when the top shaft and bottom shaft are meshed. 

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1 hour ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Is the noise the same frequency in all gears at the same engine speed? 

I believe it changes speed with the tractor but doesn't get higher or lower pitched. Seems its worse under load. Best that I can deduce is maybe ring and pinion but I think changing clearances may make it worse.

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My 140 will howl like an air raid siren (may be a bit excessive) in 4th and a little in 3rd and is quiet in 2nd and 1st. 

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9 hours ago, LipRipper3006 said:

I believe it changes speed with the tractor but doesn't get higher or lower pitched. Seems its worse under load. Best that I can deduce is maybe ring and pinion but I think changing clearances may make it worse.

You're probably right. The ring and pinion are worn in where they are and changing them is just asking for trouble the way I understand it.

It does have that classic well-worn, straight-cut-gear type of noise that you hear out of the REALLY old tractors at tractor shows.

Oh did you check the final drives? The lube in those is separate from the transmission.

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A gear train with a bad bearing can sound very normal with no load. The noise comes from the associated shaft moving out of its intended position a few thousandths, when you put a load on it. Soon the bearing on the other end of the shaft will loosen and the whining noise will become a grinding noise. Good luck with it.

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14 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

"Speed of the tractor" ... no, does it change with travel speed? Does it change with engine speed? This is important. Leave the engine speed set, and change gears. If it is the same through all gears, top shaft. If it changes, bottom shaft.

The ground froze up a bit so I got to drive on some move level ground. Now I believe its coming from the front top shaft bearing. It seems to be constant under load in any gear. It does seem to go quiet down when it on flat ground a bit. Is a little quieter in first but the others it seems constant with engine speed.

I guess I will be tearing into it and seeing what all needs replaced if the owner decides. He said the left final drive was empty when he got inherited it.  Is there anything else I should be mindful of while I'm in there?

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Strip that rear end and transmission down to nothing.

Then rebuild it with any needed bearings and all new seals.

Look at the age of that Ol Girl?

She needs a bit of TLC!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/24/2022 at 8:23 AM, Diesel Doctor said:

Strip that rear end and transmission down to nothing.

Then rebuild it with any needed bearings and all new seals.

Look at the age of that Ol Girl?

She needs a bit of TLC!

I am starting the re assembly with all new bearings, I put the counter shaft back in and have a red flag. With the Front bearing pressed in I can slide the whole shaft in and out 1/4". The bearing is pressed flush with the shaft at the front and the rear bearing is centered in the casting. There was only one shim when I took the assembly apart. I looked at the cap that goes over the front bearing and see where it looks like the bolt has spun against the cap and caused a groove. My question is if there's something that I assembled wrong? From the parts diagram I believe I have everything together but the gasket and endcap. I don't believe that the bolt should be rubbing the cap and it seems to be a little excessive for a shim adjustment.

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9 hours ago, LipRipper3006 said:

I am starting the re assembly with all new bearings, I put the counter shaft back in and have a red flag. With the Front bearing pressed in I can slide the whole shaft in and out 1/4". The bearing is pressed flush with the shaft at the front and the rear bearing is centered in the casting. There was only one shim when I took the assembly apart. I looked at the cap that goes over the front bearing and see where it looks like the bolt has spun against the cap and caused a groove. My question is if there's something that I assembled wrong? From the parts diagram I believe I have everything together but the gasket and end cap. I don't believe that the bolt should be rubbing the cap and it seems to be a little excessive for a shim adjustment.

That should not move at all.

Do not assemble it until you have found the problem.

Perhaps a bearing went out, years ago, and wore the front hub and they just put it back together.

The front bearing goes over the counter shaft.

Is this the correct bearing and was there a snap ring over the outer race of the old bearing.

That snap ring prevented the bearing from walking forward and back in the case like you described.

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/6/2022 at 9:34 AM, Diesel Doctor said:

That should not move at all.

Do not assemble it until you have found the problem.

Perhaps a bearing went out, years ago, and wore the front hub and they just put it back together.

The front bearing goes over the counter shaft.

Is this the correct bearing and was there a snap ring over the outer race of the old bearing.

That snap ring prevented the bearing from walking forward and back in the case like you described.

 

 

 

I got it all back together, I was told the bearing pressed into the retainer so I thought the press fit would hold it in place but I ended up putting the cap on and it tightened up the endplay. I only had hytran on hand so I put some in the transmission and it's still quite noisy in 3 & 4 but I chalk that up to being likely the two most used gears. I will try so 80/90 or 85/140 and see if it quietens down some.

 

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