Farmall M-TA: Increase Road Speed?

[LipRipper3006]

I'm getting ready to start a parts list to restore this tractor. I currently don't have an over axle trailer or a heavy duty truck to pull one so I ride about 10 miles one way a few times a year to attend local shows and parades.

I have a Super MD that has stock gearing on 13.6 tires and will do at least 20 wide open. Its a narrow front and pulls hills well even with about 1 ton load behind it. Since this M-TA I'm going to build will be mostly a show & parade tractor, it will spend most of its life on asphalt. Its a D264 that will sleeved to a 281. Not set on a tire size yet but a 13.6/14.9/15.5. I know 14.9 will give a slightly higher speed but its an odd size, hard to find, and expensive when you do (I'd like Firestone Field & Roads). Has an IH Wide Front that I plan on plumbing in a char lynn PS system.

I am mainly asking to see if there's a particular ring & pinion that can be swapped in from a different application. I'm looking for a ratio that wont be super tall where its constantly bogged down but id like to cruise at least 25mph at around 1/2-3/4 throttle. For hills and taking off I will have the TA. I just don't want to ride the whole way with the engine at the top of the rev range.

Not sure if this is feasible but I didn't think it would hurt to ask to see what others have done.

[JDpartsman]

Sounds like you need a tow bar and a pickup truck. 

[snoshoe]

I'll be generous and say half throttle is 1000+ rpm. Cars and trucks use overdrive to get engine speed that low at 50 mph. Your goal is half that speed. I never counted teeth but bull gear pinion ratio is several times that. Better rethink your goals. Just getting 25mph without overreving engine should be hard enough.

[JaredT]

I am no help, but i drove a Ford 3000 at 42 mph before. With the right mindset anything is achievable. 

[bitty]

I'd not worry about running high RPM on the MTA as much as a Super MD . I'd take the ride related and have fun. We drove my 450D and 1066 back from the county fair at 15-20 miles 

[hillman]

10 hours ago, LipRipper3006 said:

I know 14.9 will give a slightly higher speed but its an odd size, hard to find, and expensive when you do (I'd like Firestone Field & Roads). Has an IH Wide Front that I plan on plumbing in a char lynn PS system.

 where its constantly bogged down but id like to cruise at least 25mph at around 1/2 throttle. For hills and taking off I will have the TA. I just don't want to ride the whole way with the engine at the top of the rev range.

Not sure if this is feasible but I didn't think it would hurt to ask to see what others have done.

finding 14.9s is cheaper and easier than what you want to accomplish and since you asked I think it's a futile goal. I am not one that buys into running tractors at partial rpm. They are governed to work at that speed and it will not hurt them. lugging engines is worse than full speed. A Farmall M runs slow compared to most tractors. Whenever I get on one I think there's something wrong with the governor until its under load. A goal of 25 mph at half throttle means 50 mph at WOT. - the tractor would be uselss  

just my  2 cents sorry if it offends

 BTW you do not need an " over axle" trailer to move Farmall tractors

[Diesel Doctor]

My H will do 16 mph on 12.4 X 38's and set at normal high idle.

Radar verified.

I know of no way to increase the speed of your tractors by ring and pinions.

IH used only one speed.

From what I have found, the best way to get there is to set in the seat and drive.

Enjoy the fresh air and sights.

 

[bitty]

W6 ring and pinion might be different? 

[fudwayne]

the standard tractors have faster gears because of the shorter tires

[Gearclash]

No need to regear just do what my high school classmate did and stuff a Cat 3150 in there -- it will do 50 + mph . . . 

[DWV]

Won't get you to 25 MPH at half throttle but a SW6TA and W 400 and 450 use a 19 tooth main shaft and 47 tooth ring gear. You have a 19 and 50 tooth. If changing get rear main shaft bearing retainer for a W series along with shaft.

[ksfarmdude]

16 hours ago, LipRipper3006 said:

I'm getting ready to start a parts list to restore this tractor. I currently don't have an over axle trailer or a heavy duty truck to pull one so I ride about 10 miles one way a few times a year to attend local shows and parades.

I have a Super MD that has stock gearing on 13.6 tires and will do at least 20 wide open. Its a narrow front and pulls hills well even with about 1 ton load behind it. Since this M-TA I'm going to build will be mostly a show & parade tractor, it will spend most of its life on asphalt. Its a D264 that will sleeved to a 281. Not set on a tire size yet but a 13.6/14.9/15.5. I know 14.9 will give a slightly higher speed but its an odd size, hard to find, and expensive when you do (I'd like Firestone Field & Roads). Has an IH Wide Front that I plan on plumbing in a char lynn PS system.

I am mainly asking to see if there's a particular ring & pinion that can be swapped in from a different application. I'm looking for a ratio that wont be super tall where its constantly bogged down but id like to cruise at least 25mph at around 1/2-3/4 throttle. For hills and taking off I will have the TA. I just don't want to ride the whole way with the engine at the top of the rev range.

Not sure if this is feasible but I didn't think it would hurt to ask to see what others have done.

Pull it or haul it is best , Why mess with making it go faster ?

[Jeff-C-IL]

I would have the heebies doing over 20 mph on a narrow front tractor frankly!

Suggestion:   Do you have a vehicle of any sort with a hitch?   If so, buy or make a tow dolly for the front wheels.   Just pull the front end on, tie her down, and drive @ 45 to your show.   (I used to do this all the time moving the 400 from place to place.)  These tractors are not that heavy - any decently sized SUV or van could pull one at reasonable speed safely.

[560Dennis]

Make sure the steering gear is in excellent maintenance. 
The M will do a death walk if the steering is loose in road gear. 
Experience is not a good teacher .

 

[hillman]

4 hours ago, DWV said:

Won't get you to 25 MPH at half throttle but a SW6TA and W 400 and 450 use a 19 tooth main shaft and 47 tooth ring gear. You have a 19 and 50 tooth. If changing get rear main shaft bearing retainer for a W series along with shaft.

I calculated it out to be approximately 1 mph faster. Someone may have better math skills than I do . probably gain as much with 14.9s

[hillman]

the kansas dude is confused on my last postme too. - I am sure I am missing something! I am open to be corrected.

[Lars (midessa)]

I wouldn’t worry about running wot in road gear. For years and years, we pulled loads between farms, that were 7-8 miles apart. SM, 400, 560, 656, all summer during haying season. Did that for years, the only that wore out were the drive tires. lol

[Mudfly]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:22 PM, LipRipper3006 said:

I'm getting ready to start a parts list to restore this tractor. I currently don't have an over axle trailer or a heavy duty truck to pull one so I ride about 10 miles one way a few times a year to attend local shows and parades.

I have a Super MD that has stock gearing on 13.6 tires and will do at least 20 wide open. Its a narrow front and pulls hills well even with about 1 ton load behind it. Since this M-TA I'm going to build will be mostly a show & parade tractor, it will spend most of its life on asphalt. Its a D264 that will sleeved to a 281. Not set on a tire size yet but a 13.6/14.9/15.5. I know 14.9 will give a slightly higher speed but its an odd size, hard to find, and expensive when you do (I'd like Firestone Field & Roads). Has an IH Wide Front that I plan on plumbing in a char lynn PS system.

I am mainly asking to see if there's a particular ring & pinion that can be swapped in from a different application. I'm looking for a ratio that wont be super tall where its constantly bogged down but id like to cruise at least 25mph at around 1/2-3/4 throttle. For hills and taking off I will have the TA. I just don't want to ride the whole way with the engine at the top of the rev range.

Not sure if this is feasible but I didn't think it would hurt to ask to see what others have done.

10 miles?  So it takes you 30 to 40 minutes.  If you get up to the speed you are talking about it will take you 25 minutes.  That’s a lot of work to save 5 to 10 minutes a few times a year.

 

[LipRipper3006]

54 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

10 miles?  So it takes you 30 to 40 minutes.  If you get up to the speed you are talking about it will take you 25 minutes.  That’s a lot of work to save 5 to 10 minutes a few times a year.

 

The goal wasn't to go that much faster, just to see if there was a way to up the ratio in order to bring the revs down. I'm not particularly trying to decrease the travel time, it would only be an added benefit. I'm going through the tractor either way so its not a huge issue to swap parts, just needed to have the parts ready before I start if there were any that would make a difference.

 

I enjoy driving them vs hauling because the vehicle & trailer maintenance factor is removed and by the time it takes to drag out and chain down everything I could be about half way there. Last time I made the drive it took around 45mins. Its exactly 9.5 miles by car and 11.0 by tractor because most of the route is a highway so I go down backroads to avoid the main road.

[iowaboy1965]

They are made to run wide open all day long day after day. I'm curious why you are worried about the rpms? I will back a tractor off a bit when going down a big hill while roading,  or keep the rpms down till they are warmed up but other than that it's full throttle. 

[Binderoid]

It’s a little involved, but build yourself a little pusher to be attached to the drawbar, that could be powered by the PTO; such as a Ford 9” axle with a really low ratio. I’ve seen them as low as 2.75, but with 540 rpm input I don’t know what that would work out to in terms of MPH. The entire point is, it would be easier to get the needed gearing for a pusher to work than changing the internals of the tractor.

[hillman]

23 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

 

Form what I have found, the best way to get there is to set in the seat and drive.

Enjoy the fresh air and sights.

 

^ best advice right there. before overdrives every car run 1800 rpm or higher on the road. 

 Not piling on the OP but there's lots of ppl think they need to run a tractor at less than full throttle. I don't get it. other than a baler, haybine. etc which I run at PTO speed everything else is WOT ( they are governed for a reason unlike a car ). How would your lawn mower or combine work 1/2 throttle? 

 

still struggling with the gear ratios.🤓without the final drive ratios it's hard to get a perspective on if I am right or not. My last calculation came out to 3 mph increase based on an initial speed of 16 mph. I am going off percentage differences due to the lack of final drive ratio. I believe 3 mph sounds more realistic. I give up at this point while I have some hair left

 

 

[hillman]

39 minutes ago, Binderoid said:

It’s a little involved, but build yourself a little pusher to be attached to the drawbar, that could be powered by the PTO; such as a Ford 9” axle with a really low ratio. I’ve seen them as low as 2.75, but with 540 rpm input I don’t know what that would work out to in terms of MPH. The entire point is, it would be easier to get the needed gearing for a pusher to work than changing the internals of the tractor.

or just drive the tractor. 

[Diesel Doctor]

9 hours ago, LipRipper3006 said:

The goal wasn't to go that much faster, just to see if there was a way to up the ratio in order to bring the revs down. I'm not particularly trying to decrease the travel time, it would only be an added benefit. I'm going through the tractor either way so its not a huge issue to swap parts, just needed to have the parts ready before I start if there were any that would make a difference.

 

I enjoy driving them vs hauling because the vehicle & trailer maintenance factor is removed and by the time it takes to drag out and chain down everything I could be about half way there. Last time I made the drive it took around 45mins. Its exactly 9.5 miles by car and 11.0 by tractor because most of the route is a highway so I go down backroads to avoid the main road.

One of the things I missed.

We are exercising them.

This gets the engine up to temp, boils the moisture out of the oil, charges the battery, stirs the rear end grease, lubes the bearings and seals, and just does the tractors good. We need to do this more!

 

[DR.EVIL]

   I'd suggest up-sizing to a 16.9x38 rear tire,  they're a couple inches taller than a 14.9x38, and would most definitely need a wider rim,  could squeeze them onto a 14x38, but should be on a 15x38, and putting one on a 16x38 probably the easiest to find, but there's no "DW" style rims in a 15 or 16 inch rim, just double bevel, which would require 450/560/656/686 8-spoke cast wheels to put on an SM-TA.  But compared to the 12x38 tires M's came with it would be a nice bump in speed.

      So many of the similar vintage tractors to an M or Super M, even the SM-TA just creeped along.  For instance, the Deere R we owned "briefly" ran 11 mph top speed in road gear, 5th speed, same speed as the SM-TA we had ran in the low side of 5th. Allis-Chalmers were also rather slow, WD-45 was 14 mph.

      You increase your road speed too much and CRAZY unexpected stuff happens,  think it was Here a couple years ago somebody posted about a tractor accident, guy had his M out for some reason, parking equipment in the shed maybe,  decided to go for a cruise around the block, nice sunny fall day, I've done it more times than I care to confess to, a neighbor on the road a mile across the block comes by later that day, an M is laying on it's side about 8 rows into the field across from a wooded area.  It's a while before they find the guy who had been driving the M, he had signs of having been smacked in the face, couple cracked ribs, plus more severe bodily injury in his midsection, like the tractor ran over him.

      The Sheriff and ambulance crew determined a deer had darted across the road, startled by the tractor, the deer leaped but too late, hit the farmer, knocked him out of the seat onto the rear tire which tossed him down ahead of the rear wheel which then ran over him just before the tractor ran down into the ditch and eventually tipped onto it's side a ways down the road. Fenders or a cab would have probably saved his life. Having the tractor chained to a trailer would have TOTALLY defeated the purpose of the drive.  I have gone around the block a couple times since I read about that accident, but honestly, the REAL deterent to any and all tractor rides is the amount of WORK it is to remove and reinstall the tire chains on my #1 snow mover. Running on bare roads wears the cross chains at an unbelievable rate, and they are EXPENSIVE!