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I now and again window-shop for a 450 to play around with.  There's one advertised sort-of-locally as having the "big motor 360".   Can you modify the engine to get *that* much more displacement or is this out of something else, or is the seller stretching things a bit?

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I think around 660 is maximum but very expensive to obtain..... 326 it can be farmed with . 281 is stock and 298 is 1/8" over bore I think. Mine is a measley 298 but needs work right now. Think I am close on these numbers 

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12 hours ago, bitty said:

I think around 660 is maximum but very expensive to obtain..... 326 it can be farmed with . 281 is stock and 298 is 1/8" over bore I think. Mine is a measley 298 but needs work right now. Think I am close on these numbers 

Doesn't everything "need work now"?

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The MW kit made 326 ci, 1/2 in stroke and 4.25  bore. most pullers now run at least 421 cu. in Div 2t to have a chance to win. The big boys are using DT 466 block converted to gas in 560  they are running 450 hp, lots of money for set-up like that, its open class they run 8 to 16 mph down the track .

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Thanks everybody, sounds like this is more a pulling tractor than anything else.  I would just want a more usable (hyd, PTO) version of the M that sits waiting for me to decide whether to put some time and money in it.

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Dad had a 400, updated to 450 engine.   Yes, the live PTO was good.   Hydraulics sucked.   PS sucked until I put a dedicated PS pump belt driven off the alternator belt on it.

If you want a usable old tractor, get an 806.   3pt, good hydraulics, live PTO, good PS.   

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Already have a 1256 and 826.  Grew up on the old letter tractors and would like to have something along their lines that would be usable on a 10 wheel v-rake, but if the 00-50 hydraulics aren't up for even that there would be no point and then I fix up the M to just look at.

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I run an 8 wheel rake with my 400 easily enough. It may depend on the rake design as to how well it runs it. They were not an 806 as said, but were a pretty good horse in their day. I used to cuss mine a lil but have come to appreciate it for what it is and would be hard pressed to let it go now.

My first tractor and my grandparents took me to get it and followed me home. In grandma's words " o those are dandy tractors" come to find out later a 400 or 450 was the last tractor grandpa owned and farmed full time with before retiring. 

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3 hours ago, 234-IA said:

Already have a 1256 and 826.  Grew up on the old letter tractors and would like to have something along their lines that would be usable on a 10 wheel v-rake, but if the 00-50 hydraulics aren't up for even that there would be no point and then I fix up the M to just look at.

Im guessing your rake is 3pt as most pull types are 12 wheels and up.

I added a aftermarket 3pt to my SM w/ps and live hyd.

Pulled a 10 wheel Vicon all over the country putting up hay 

It was more than enough tractor.

Think I have pics of the set up on puter but not this phone.

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OH, pick up rake, yeah they would be fine for that.    The 400 was always a good raking tractor.   Pulling in hayracks, raking, and cultivating with the mount 4 row were always its good points.   The Hydraulics were almost good enough to pick up a 8 row fully loaded planter....just not quite.   BTW, the 806 would not either until we swapped out the relief valve for a '86 series one.

Sorry, tend to forget about the haymaking.   Still have Grandma's JD B - last thing it was used for was pulling the rake and the tedder.   Now it just sits.

And most 10-12 wheel rakes around me are all trailing - the 3pt ones are the weird ones.   Different area, I guess.

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48 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

And most 10-12 wheel rakes around me are all trailing - the 3pt ones are the weird ones.   Different area, I guess.

Yeah, I guess nowadays here too.

My 3pt v-rake went down the road years ago.

Most in my area pull a 14 wheel H&S.

Rowse makes up to 24 and 27 wheel v-rakes.

Think it would take more than my SM or a 450😄

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19 hours ago, sandhiller said:

Im guessing your rake is 3pt as most pull types are 12 wheels and up.

I added a aftermarket 3pt to my SM w/ps and live hyd.

Pulled a 10 wheel Vicon all over the country putting up hay 

It was more than enough tractor.

Think I have pics of the set up on puter but not this phone.

Very few 3pt rakes around here.  I have what they call a "carted" H&S rake with the two stage lift (it first raises both wings together horizontally about a foot and a half, then starts lifting each wing individually to fully vertical).   I hay on contour strips which tend to have a lot of weird point-row sections and a narrow front would be super-handy.

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3 hours ago, 234-IA said:

Very few 3pt rakes around here.  I have what they call a "carted" H&S rake with the two stage lift (it first raises both wings together horizontally about a foot and a half, then starts lifting each wing individually to fully vertical).   I hay on contour strips which tend to have a lot of weird point-row sections and a narrow front would be super-handy.

Got ya, forgot about the carts as we never saw many here.

 

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Went and checked out that 400 tonight, going to pass. Not a bad machine, just not one I 'need'. Standard drawbar, no fenders, narrow front. If it was a 450 with fast-hitch?? He also has two M's, a 560 diesel, a 706 gas nf, and I believe a W-4 that he's needing to sell. The one M has the early style wide-front, though it has been welded on a fair bit. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll try to get you in contact.

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15 hours ago, DT Fan said:

Standard drawbar, no fenders, narrow front.

Sounds like my kind of tractor then! Too bad I'm 7+ hours south or I might be interested. When all you're doing is using pull-type equipment you don't really need a hitch, and fenders are just in the way on the 00/50 series, and the narrow front just lets it turn that much tighter. The 706 gas NF is also a "grail" tractor for me. Take the fenders off and leave the fast hitch for the few times you need it, perfect small-farm tractor imho. 

Mac

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15 minutes ago, MacAR said:

Sounds like my kind of tractor then! Too bad I'm 7+ hours south or I might be interested. When all you're doing is using pull-type equipment you don't really need a hitch, and fenders are just in the way on the 00/50 series, and the narrow front just lets it turn that much tighter. The 706 gas NF is also a "grail" tractor for me. Take the fenders off and leave the fast hitch for the few times you need it, perfect small-farm tractor imho. 

Mac

The narrow front isn't a big detractor for me. Just looking more for a 450, preferably with fast-hitch.

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Fast hitch is handy for moving machinery around I've found with the 560.  Dont have to put the jack up and back down usually. I don't mind a narrow front on a few tractors. Like the wide front on my 826 tho. Most 400s probably been upgraded to 450 specs by now? Not all I'm sure but probably a fair amount of them I'd guess?

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