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Third world chaos


New Englander
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I get these alerts all day, usually about missile launches, weather issues, border strife, runway closures, etc. Here's one though, that really got my attention. Flying in Africa has always been an adventure but this takes the cake. Controllers arrested and replaced by unknowns? Luckily no flights for us scheduled.

Always avoid third world airlines and the whole third world if possible.

 

Africa
A very dangerous situation is developing today in the African ATC strike. Crews and operators should be aware that in a number of FIRs/ACCs/Towers, the normal controllers have been replaced earlier today with unqualified and unrated people. In simple terms, the voice on the radio is NOT an Air Traffic Controller.

From local sources we understand that GOOO/Dakar Oceanic and domestic, DXXX/Lomé, and FKKD/Douala all have unlicensed staff that have taken over the faciltiies. In FCBB/Brazzaville and FMCX/FMCH/Comoros, controllers have been arrested. In Niger and Madagascar, controllers have been suspended.
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3 minutes ago, New Englander said:

I get these alerts all day, usually about missile launches, weather issues, border strife, runway closures, etc. Here's one though, that really got my attention. Flying in Africa has always been an adventure but this takes the cake. Controllers arrested and replaced by unknowns? Luckily no flights for us scheduled.

Always avoid third world airlines and the whole third world if possible.

 

Africa
A very dangerous situation is developing today in the African ATC strike. Crews and operators should be aware that in a number of FIRs/ACCs/Towers, the normal controllers have been replaced earlier today with unqualified and unrated people. In simple terms, the voice on the radio is NOT an Air Traffic Controller.

From local sources we understand that GOOO/Dakar Oceanic and domestic, DXXX/Lomé, and FKKD/Douala all have unlicensed staff that have taken over the faciltiies. In FCBB/Brazzaville and FMCX/FMCH/Comoros, controllers have been arrested. In Niger and Madagascar, controllers have been suspended.

I am one to never want to travel any place outside of North America and Western Europe with the exception of Germany, Poland, Northern Europe, and Japan.  I most likely left something out but any spare money needs to be spent here at home so it is not like I am going any place anyways.  HCOP or something similar would be my big adventure.

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1 hour ago, Art From Coleman said:

I would have thought that Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City, Seattle, Denver and Portland would have made the list

They're only also-rans

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7 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Maybe you should rethink that? That doesn't seem healthy at all.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. As chief pilot for the department I need to know where in the world we may need to be vigilant. I've received today all the closed airports and airspace due to the approaching hurricane. I receive warnings about Israel/Palestinian strife, Lebanon, Russian and Ukrainian airspace, etc. Along with domestic issues such as GPS jamming tests, anticipated delays due air traffic controller shortages and on and on. Most I can easily dismiss as not important due present schedule. We're not going to Baghdad but we are going to the Emirates and Saudi so issues in the Mideast may be important.

The point of my post is that I've never heard of ATC controllers being arrested and replaced with who knows who. I was in France the other day when the controllers struck but they used supervisors and limited flights. We were just going Paris-London so were only in French airspace for a very short time and had no delay.   

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11 hours ago, cobfly said:

I am done going places where I can not pack.

Stay the phuck away from this shiithole, its close, oh so close to being unlawful to defend yourself here, and the politicos don't give a ratz azz, one party gets in and makes inroads on minumum sentences, but the bleeding hearts get all weepy that its to hard on their rehab, early parole, short jail terms, club med prisons, revolving door court systems, then another "liberal" party comes in and dumbs down anything that can help us, the ones paying their wages and pensions, here are just two instances for yall, '20, shiitrat was on the radar as a problem, as a unregistered gun user/buyer, but nothing happens, kills 22 people, '22, shiitrat has dozens upon dozens of arrests and convictions, he too was on the radar, 11 people stabbed to death, 18 injured, how are they connected? They are not, but they are by a system that is veering left more and more and more, why are air controllers being removed and replaced by noodniks? Why are innocents killed by people on the radar but ignored, it starts at the top and bleeds down and it won't stop until we stop it, and I don't mean taking it to the streets or joining some ramrod right based group, I mean talking and getting the voice out that we have to vote and not think the other guys will vote and we can sit on our azzes, newey's post said third world chaos, it ain't just there the same stuff is happening here in north amerika.

Sorry for the hijack newey.

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10 hours ago, New Englander said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean. As chief pilot for the department I need to know where in the world we may need to be vigilant. I've received today all the closed airports and airspace due to the approaching hurricane. I receive warnings about Israel/Palestinian strife, Lebanon, Russian and Ukrainian airspace, etc. Along with domestic issues such as GPS jamming tests, anticipated delays due air traffic controller shortages and on and on. Most I can easily dismiss as not important due present schedule. We're not going to Baghdad but we are going to the Emirates and Saudi so issues in the Mideast may be important.

The point of my post is that I've never heard of ATC controllers being arrested and replaced with who knows who. I was in France the other day when the controllers struck but they used supervisors and limited flights. We were just going Paris-London so were only in French airspace for a very short time and had no delay.   

I'm saying if you're so obsessed with being upset and worried that you have to have your phone going off every time something bad happens in the world, that's not healthy.

That's what it sounded like. Didn't know it was your job.

It's probably illegal to strike, or even conspire to strike, in those countries, hence why the controllers were arrested.

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19 hours ago, Art From Coleman said:

I would have thought that Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City, Seattle, Denver and Portland would have made the list

Actually I spend a fair amount of time in LA, SF, and Seattle. It's like anyplace - stay away from certain areas and it's fine. San Fransisco and Seattle downtown, what used to be good tourist areas, are just trashed. One should never go to East LA, Other than the airport I haven't been in Portland for years. Back in the day we'd go to the Danner factory for shoes but that was years ago and not far from the airport. Their boots are probably made in China now anyway.

There's so much to do around LA. Two great auto museums, La Brea tar pits, two great airplane museums down in Chino,the Reagan Library, etc.

I've been, well, all over. You just have to do due diligence. The African safaris were a high point. Flying around Africa has really improved over the past decades but I'm floored by the replacement of controllers with ?? You've always had to be careful - offset and self announce position, maybe vertically offset too. Some countries at war you just don't fly over even if you can get overflight permits.

in the past passengers would be surprised when the airshow screens would show us over Iran. 'can't do that anymore but for a long time it was the best way around the region.Iranian controllers were good.  Overflight permits were a source of hard currency.

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5 minutes ago, New Englander said:

I'm floored by the replacement of controllers with ??

That does seem pretty concerning. Sounds like a good part of the world to stay the heck out of. 

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I'm saying if you're so obsessed with being upset and worried that you have to have your phone going off every time something bad happens in the world, that's not healthy.

That's what it sounded like. Didn't know it was your job.

It's probably illegal to strike, or even conspire to strike, in those countries, hence why the controllers were arrested.

We use a subscription service to sift through the thousands of NOTAMS - formerly Notices to Airmen now, due to some woke bureaucrats, Notices to Air Missions in the 'States even though NO woman pilot I've ever met had any issue with Airman. I digress. The NOTAM system is terrible. Buried in the lists of unimportant are the important thing things like runway closures and approach systems out of service. Overseas are especially bad as they insist on listing everything in one category. Who cares if taxiway light #452 is inop? We don't have time to dig through all of that so we get bulletins, lots of them, with the important stuff highlighted.

Yeah, probably illegal to strike. I was dating a cute red head controller who got fired by Reagan. She was just off probation and the union steward told her she must walk or forever be be an outcast, besides, the president wouldn't dare fire us. So much for that.

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I'm saying if you're so obsessed with being upset and worried that you have to have your phone going off every time something bad happens in the world, that's not healthy.

That's what it sounded like. Didn't know it was your job.

It's probably illegal to strike, or even conspire to strike, in those countries, hence why the controllers were arrested.

Here's a piece of today's Florida:

Orlando International Airport authorities have issued NOTAM 09/160 announcing cessation of operations, except for emergency flights, from 14.30 on 28 September until 14.30 (all times UTC) on 30 September.

Tampa International Airport authorities have issued NOTAM 09/267 announcing airport closure from 00.57 on 28 September until 16.00 (all times UTC) on 30 September.

Melbourne International Airport authorities have issued NOTAM 09/040 announcing airport closure from 18.00 on 28 September until 14.00 (all times UTC) on 30 September.

Sarasota Bradenton International Airport authorities have issued NOTAM 09/107 announcing airport closure from 00.00 on 28 September until 23.59 (all times UTC) on 29 September.

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On 9/27/2022 at 9:17 AM, New Englander said:

I get these alerts all day, usually about missile launches, weather issues, border strife, runway closures, etc. Here's one though, that really got my attention. Flying in Africa has always been an adventure but this takes the cake. Controllers arrested and replaced by unknowns? Luckily no flights for us scheduled.

Always avoid third world airlines and the whole third world if possible.

 

Africa
A very dangerous situation is developing today in the African ATC strike. Crews and operators should be aware that in a number of FIRs/ACCs/Towers, the normal controllers have been replaced earlier today with unqualified and unrated people. In simple terms, the voice on the radio is NOT an Air Traffic Controller.

From local sources we understand that GOOO/Dakar Oceanic and domestic, DXXX/Lomé, and FKKD/Douala all have unlicensed staff that have taken over the faciltiies. In FCBB/Brazzaville and FMCX/FMCH/Comoros, controllers have been arrested. In Niger and Madagascar, controllers have been suspended.

Not being a very worldly person, I'm curious as to what is the main reason people travel to these areas? Business, family, tourist, immigration?  Are there as many international flights as local based on what you see?

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2 hours ago, yellowrosefarm said:

Not being a very worldly person, I'm curious as to what is the main reason people travel to these areas? Business, family, tourist, immigration?  Are there as many international flights as local based on what you see?

I know folks that have flown for all of the four reasons you listed.  I would guess that the main ones are business travel (my brother and two coworkers fly back from SF today), vacations, and family.  If I fly it is nearly 100% for business because I enjoy road trips too much.

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On 9/28/2022 at 10:02 AM, yellowrosefarm said:

Not being a very worldly person, I'm curious as to what is the main reason people travel to these areas? Business, family, tourist, immigration?  Are there as many international flights as local based on what you see?

Any day of the the year there's about 200,000 flights. People travel for the same reasons everywhere: for work, to visit relatives, to tour, for medical reasons, for business dealings, etc. Not all of the third world is a $hit hole. In fact, lots of it is quite beautiful. I've overstated "avoid" because there are plenty of nice places and good people. I stand by "avoid third world airlines" with few exceptions.

I've been to many cool places in the world and while there's plenty to do and see in the US don't be afraid to venture out, just do your due diligence.

Here's a pic of what 19,000 flights look like. You can see holes over parts of Africa and a hole over the vast Amazon. The rest of the world is quite busy:

flight-radar-24-planes-june29-full.jpg

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Historically after WW2 the First World was the West, or NATO countries. The Second World was the communist bloc countries. The Third World countries were those not aligned with either. Today it has evolved into what are seen as developing, or underdeveloped, countries. 
https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm

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...incredible, ........and out there are people ...(The planet savers ...)  who are  seriously concerned  with cattle...breaking wind....

...to quote my American friend in Utah

"'...it sure makes you wonder..don't it...""

Mike

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9 hours ago, MTB98 said:

Historically after WW2 the First World was the West, or NATO countries. The Second World was the communist bloc countries. The Third World countries were those not aligned with either. Today it has evolved into what are seen as developing, or underdeveloped, countries. 
https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm

...what about the  now seemingly ''out of control''  regression  of all our countries where the left wing nut jobs are currently sitting on the respective lids.....

...perhaps  ""Second World ""   status...or will it degenerate into "'Communist Block "" catagory  ???......or are they one in the same ??

..our Glorious leaders    achievements....The  wonders of Socialism

Mike

unnamed  red queen.png

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21 hours ago, New Englander said:

I stand by "avoid third world airlines" with few exceptions.

I've been to many cool places in the world and while there's plenty to do and see in the US don't be afraid to venture out, just do your due diligence.

Wise words.  I flew Aeroflot from Moscow to Frankfurt in June of 1990.  When we touched down in Frankfurt, the whole cabin applauded.  Perhaps applauding was tradition at that place and time, but my applause was of gratitude to be on the ground.  It seemed like the plane's controls were in the hands of a 22-year old who already downed a half-bottle of vodka.

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