2166 & Macdon 973/ Case IH 2052

[IHEnnis]

Hello, Currently we are running a late model CBJ Serial number 25' 1020 full finger header on our 2166 combine. This is in 75-100 BPA wheat and 50-80 BPA soybeans. The combine does not have field tracker on it but we get along pretty well in our flat ground with just the cutter bar flex. I have been around FD70 through the new FD130 drapers and love the way the combines perform with the smoother feeding.  I was wondering if anybody has any experience running a 973/ 2052 or D60/ 2152 25' head on a 2166 or 2366 combine and how they made out with soybeans. In my mind if the float optimizer was working correctly and the header springs were set right you would not be loosing much for cut quality but would be gaining a lot in feeding. Last year in green steam irrigated soybeans that had lodged I was having a time getting them to feed.

[ksfarmdude]

Only thing the guys around here don't care about on MaDon heads is how heavy they are and poor parts availability

[SDman]

Pretty flat in my part of the world. Had a guy that ran a CaseIH 1052(MacDon 963) head in soybeans for better than 15 years....he wore out two 2388s pushing it in that same amount of time. Didn't have Field Tracker, either. This guy was a picky customer as well....I'll guarantee you that he wouldn't have kept that head for all those years if he thought he was giving up much to either a flexhead like a 1020, or even a Flex Draper like a 974/FD70/FD75 in MacDon colors or 2062/2162 in CaseIH colors. As far as 60/66 series combines, I've only ever seen a 1660 with a 30' MacDon straight head around here, and that was a header for small grain...not soybeans. When we became a MacDon dealer back in the mid-1990s, 60 series combines were on their way out, and most guys that still used them would not spend the extra $$$ for a draper head.

Yes, you should be able to use the Float Optimizer with the combine's AHHC system to do a decent job in terms of header height/cutting height control.

As far as parts availability, in my part of the world, MacDon parts would be some of the easiest to obtain. Just about every color of dealer(CaseIH, New Holland, Cat, AGCO, Massey-Ferguson) around here is a MacDon dealer....with the exception of Deere dealers....and most of them were MacDon dealers until 10 years ago or so when Deere told them they couldn't sell MacDon draper heads anymore since Deere had their own. Their loss.....

As far as the better feeding, there's just no comparison. I can remember when Deere came out with the full-fingered auger 20 years ago or so; you would have thought that the wheel was reinvented again. We sold a few 1020s with the full-fingered auger....it might have helped a little, but it was still no draper head, especially when the sun went down.

[IHEnnis]

Thank you for responding. @SDman I was hoping you would respond because I have browsed a lot of prior threads with you talking about drapers. In your opinion would a 973 be a better fit because of the narrower center belt in the adaptor? It seems like a D60 or D65 would be tricky to get narrowed up to a 88 size feeder let alone a 66 size feeder. I know macdon says to put extensions on the feed drum auger flighting to accomplish this but I didn’t know if you had experience with how well it works. 

[dale560]

1 hour ago, IHEnnis said:

Thank you for responding. @SDman I was hoping you would respond because I have browsed a lot of prior threads with you talking about drapers. In your opinion would a 973 be a better fit because of the narrower center belt in the adaptor? It seems like a D60 or D65 would be tricky to get narrowed up to a 88 size feeder let alone a 66 size feeder. I know macdon says to put extensions on the feed drum auger flighting to accomplish this but I didn’t know if you had experience with how well it works. 

You nailed it when it comes to newer combines and Draper headers SD is far and away the resident expert. Nobody up here ran drawers on the 60 size machines just because of the 3rd lift cylinder needed and they all upgraded to bigger machines. Very seldom see a machine without a Draper head around North Dakota any more. Except for the poor people running old stuff

[SDman]

5 hours ago, IHEnnis said:

Thank you for responding. @SDman I was hoping you would respond because I have browsed a lot of prior threads with you talking about drapers. In your opinion would a 973 be a better fit because of the narrower center belt in the adaptor? It seems like a D60 or D65 would be tricky to get narrowed up to a 88 size feeder let alone a 66 size feeder. I know macdon says to put extensions on the feed drum auger flighting to accomplish this but I didn’t know if you had experience with how well it works. 

No experience with installing an FD or newer MacDon on a 66 series combine.

With the 973 header/873 adapter, MacDon offered no less than 3 different widths of center draper depending on the combine it was attached to. They offered a 38" center draper for the 60 series Axial-Flows, Gleaners, smaller New Holland CRs; a 45" draper for the bigger Axial-Flows, CR New Hollands, several models of John Deeres, and other machines; and then a 55" wide center draper for combines with the widest feeders. I would highly suggest the proper matching of combine/center canvas of the 873 adapter for minimal feeding issues. I've seen guys try to mix & match in this area...and it doesn't end well. 

[ksfarmdude]

Why Don't you stay with Case IH heads they are just as good as Mcdon's maybe better 

[Big Bud guy]

2 hours ago, ksfarmdude said:

Why Don't you stay with Case IH heads they are just as good as Mcdon's maybe better 

You talking drapers?  Far as I know Case dropped their own headers and are going back to Macdon.  

[ksfarmdude]

 Macdon is making them For CaseIH to begin with only in Case IH red and with dealer support  I can't imagine Case IH giving up selling  drapers designed for their combines  they would stand to lose alot of sales John Deere makes their own drapers So does Agco 

[Big Bud guy]

1 hour ago, ksfarmdude said:

 Macdon is making them For CaseIH to begin with only in Case IH red and with dealer support  I can't imagine Case IH giving up selling  drapers designed for their combines  they would stand to lose alot of sales John Deere makes their own drapers So does Agco 

https://www.agriculture.com/machinery/harvesting/case-ih-partners-with-macdon-to-co-produce-draper-headers
 

Case IH is going back to Macdon according to this article.  Pretty sure I heard CIH were dropping their own.

[jass1660]

I’ve never heard anything good about CaseIH’s draper. 

[SDman]

First off, I've worked at a dealer that has sold MacDon combine headers since the mid-1990s. I'll be the first to say I was rather skeptical about draper heads as I grew up on a farm where Dad pretty much insisted that small grain HAD to be swathed before it could be combined...I remember all the headaches in trying to keep swathers(both SP and PT types) going. I initially thought "what a step backwards" in regards to drapers vs. auger heads.

My first positive experience....1994...a customer of ours had a brand-new 1688 combine with a new 1010 30' auger head that was operating in the same field as his other setup, a late model 1680 with a 36' MacDon draper head that was a year old. The 1680 could keep up with the 1688 round for round. We got to looking at the 1010 head(which was new), and found some issues; auger finger timing was off, the stripper bar behind the auger wasn't adjusted properly, auger flight extensions, etc. While we improved the 1688/1010 combo with all the adjustments, at best all it would do is keep up with the 1680, which had another 20% of header in front of it(and less HP to boot). Since those combines had no muffler, it was interesting to listen to the exhaust note on both machines. The 1680's tone was just smooth, even as you went through better and poorer parts of the field. The 1688 was just a constant up/down, up/down change in the tone as it fed big chunks of wheat straw, and then small chunks of wheat straw right after. Doesn't take long to see that a machine that is getting fed wads at a time just loses a lot of its overall efficiency...from threshing...to cleaning...to residue handling. At this time, soybeans were not raised around here so I had very little experience with flex heads. 

About 20 years ago, the soybean craze hit here, and we sold numerous 1020s. Now, a 1020 probably works great in Corn Belt soybeans, but they were terrible in our short soybeans....they just constantly built up right behind the cutter bar and then.....woosh....here they come....and you better be ready for it. With draper heads, it doesn't really matter if you have short beans, tall beans, or whatever....once they get to the draper most of your problems are gone. 

Yes, CaseIH drapers were rebadged MacDons until 2013 or so when somebody at CNH decided they were going to venture on their own into the draper head market. We kept selling MacDons for various reasons: customer acceptance of a proven product, great product support from the company, the fact that we can sell a header for just about any combine built, are just some of the reasons why we never went away from MacDon. Yes, CNH wasn't happy that we were never very interested in selling their headers, but I think they got a lot of pushback from many of their dealers over this....it certainly wasn't just at our dealership.

Even with CNH going back to MacDon-sourced headers, we probably will still keep selling more MacDons than CNH headers. Back 10 years ago, the CNH-branded headers were $8-10K higher than their MacDon counterparts that were the same part for part. I haven't heard any #s in regards to what the price difference is now, but I'm guessing its more.

[756puller]

That's about like the gerinhoff cornheads. We sold a bunch over the years cause they were a heck of a head like macdon.  Well they were starting to wear out and at 3500 a row to redo a chopping head they customers started trading off for Case ih heads cause they were cheaper but they are no where as easy to work on as a geringhoff.