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TD15B dresser dozer


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Long story short last fall my dozer idled for 30ish mins with no oil in the trans as the tranny cooler line blew off as I was not running it at the time. Ever since it doesn't push like it used to. There's times it does and next time not so much. Acts like its low on fluid but its full and the motor stays rev up like the torque converter is slipping. Also kind of same deal when you try to turn like the torque convertor just slips and wont turn very good. As the trans oil warms up everything works better but still not right. It never used to be this way so something is not right. It used to turn really good and really push. Do you think I hurt the trans or just the torque convertor? Any info on this would be greatly apricated as these things are old and not much info on. Also places the could rebuild torque convertor? Thanks

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If the torque converter is slipping oil temp will climb quickly. 

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I would say it is time to take some pressure checks of the trans/converter system.  If it was only idling and standing still when the oil disappeared I doubt the converter or transmission were damaged because of it.  The charge pump however, could have been damaged.  If you are trying to run it now and it is slipping because of low pressures, more damage will be done.  Parts and service manuals are a big help. 

There are many threads on this site on the trans/conv's of these machines.  The TD15B and C's and TD20B and C's have the same systems as far as troubleshooting.  good luck

Dennis

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Puzzling part to me is it works like it used to at times then it doesn't 🤔

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Pull your filters, if you did any real damage you'll see it there, look for shiny things. Sure sounds like a piston in one of the clutch packs is hanging every once and a while.   

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't had a chance too try some of the things you all suggested. Didn't know if anyone knew of some pressures and which ports to check and or manual to download off line to get more info? I will say the trans oil never gets too hot and as soon as it starts slipping I hit the decelerator pedal because I know its not right. It will then kind of reengage and sometimes it will push better or stay engaged better at half or 3/4 throttle vs full.  Also when try to turn especially if not real warm when you pull one of the steering levers it just slips and wants to stop and not turn. All the gauges work and trans pressure always stays in normal range. Some times if gets warmed up and at slow idle with foot brake pushed in gets a little low but its always been that way since bought it before it ran out of oil.

 

Thanks

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On 8/25/2022 at 3:03 PM, farmalldr said:

I would say it is time to take some pressure checks of the trans/converter system.  If it was only idling and standing still when the oil disappeared I doubt the converter or transmission were damaged because of it.  The charge pump however, could have been damaged.  If you are trying to run it now and it is slipping because of low pressures, more damage will be done.  Parts and service manuals are a big help. 

There are many threads on this site on the trans/conv's of these machines.  The TD15B and C's and TD20B and C's have the same systems as far as troubleshooting.  good luck

Dennis

I checked all the pressures yesterday, main clutch had 205psi in all gears and 210psi at high idle under no load. The torque convertor was 110psi in all gears and closer to 115psi in high idle. the convertor pressure were little high as should be 50-80 in gear and 70-110 fast idle. the lube pressure was always at 25psi. I checked both filters under the floor pan the smaller on that is a screen had some old paint and some dirt like it sucked up from bottom of trans but no obvious metal fines. The other filter looked ok as I recently it changed last winter still looked fine. I noticed there is smaller filter up by the left side of engine down below looks like come back from the oil cooler? i checked the convertor pressure after I cleaned the screen and pressure didn't change.

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On 9/12/2022 at 4:13 AM, mabeusman said:

Also forgot to say the drive shaft stays spinning even when the trans or something stalls/slips when I tried to turn at least I did not try to push dirt and watch it.

@mabeusman,  Good job checking pressures.  They all look good to me.  The filter screen along the engine is a safety filter, like you said.  Later machines did not have it.

The driveline should stall whenever in gear and tracks not moving even at high rpms.  If it doesn't, something is slipping.  Does the driveline spin in all gears forward and rev. or just one or two?  If it rotates in all gears it could be steering clutch slippage.  This would probably be unrelated to your oil loss.  With engine off, do the steering levers have any free travel?  If not the steer clutches may need adjusted.  We can go through that if needed.  Tell us a little more about what the driveline does in different gears and rpms.  Then we will go from there.  good luck

Dennis

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On 9/16/2022 at 9:13 PM, farmalldr said:

@mabeusman,  Good job checking pressures.  They all look good to me.  The filter screen along the engine is a safety filter, like you said.  Later machines did not have it.

The driveline should stall whenever in gear and tracks not moving even at high rpms.  If it does, something is slipping.  Does the driveline spin in all gears forward and rev. or just one or two?  If it rotates in all gears it could be steering clutch slippage.  This would probably be unrelated to your oil loss.  With engine off, do the steering levers have any free travel?  If not the steer clutches may need adjusted.  We can go through that if needed.  Tell us a little more about what the driveline does in different gears and rpms.  Then we will go from there.  good luck

Dennis

I used it little last night to push up some brush fires and will push most of the time and pull engine down some until try to turn then slips most of the time so I think you are on to something. The left steering lever barely has any play or just whats kind of loose in the pin for the lever to pivot and the right side has 1" or little more play in it with engine shut off. With The engine running the left side pulls really easy and the right side has little more resistance but still doesn't pull much harder then left. I had the floor pan off and I would say the drive shaft keep spinning whenever I could notice it slip in both forward and reverse in low or first gear in both directions. Also it is a powershift not sure if I stated that before or not. I bought this 2yrs ago and brakes worked perfect and steering worked great 98% of the time just sometimes in a tight spot or if I didn't have the engine wide open which I thought was still really good for 60 year old dozer. Most of the time before you could just pull the levers part of the way back to turn depending how fast wanted to turn and now seem to have to pull all the way at times to get it to try to turn. All worked good so I just assumed with loosing the oil I hurt something but maybe unrelated. 

 

Thanks Whitney

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first off the system is designed to run at WOT, any thing less causes damage eventually. Brake adjustment is a simple process, steering is a different story with maybe 4 or 5 different things to fiddle with, best bet here is to tighten up any slop in the pins and clevises first, we usually filled the holes by brazing shut then drilling out and replaced pins, any little play in these make a huge difference.   

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Whitney,  I suspect your slippage could be the steering clutches.  Especially the side with no free travel.  The clutches need the free travel plus a little for the shoes to grip the disc.  The steering clutches are adjusted behind the large pipe plug under the fenders and above the final drives.  I believe the operators manual gives a good description of the procedure.  

Dennis

 

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On 9/22/2022 at 10:38 AM, farmalldr said:

Whitney,  I suspect your slippage could be the steering clutches.  Especially the side with no free travel.  The clutches need the free travel plus a little for the shoes to grip the disc.  The steering clutches are adjusted behind the large pipe plug under the fenders and above the final drives.  I believe the operators manual gives a good description of the procedure.  

Dennis

 

Dennis

Finally got everything adjusted and put back together and steers like it should so pretty sure that was the problem. Both the steering clutches were little tight I had to loosen them up plus adjust everything else brakes and boosters. I've searched for steering booster cylinder kits as mine drip little to have on hand for winter project do you know anywhere to find some? Also the trans oil is not very old obviously but kind of has grayish color to it instead of light brown that put in so I assume that some of the clutch material do you think I should change oil out now that's its fixed? I also run AW32 hydraulic oil in trans as seems like that's what I've found or heard people run. The oil doesn't smell bad or burnt but I don't want to do anymore damage to anything else but oil is also not cheap right now either!

Thanks again everybody!

Whitney

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Your opening up a can of worms on the oil thing.......but my go to guy, 40 year IH mechanic and someone I trust once told me, if the friction parts in the trans or rear case have been replaced your OK with modern oil(hytran and such) otherwise use the 10wt, the new stuff is to slick and will allow slippage. I will add in 35 years of running the same 20c day in and day out, never once did we take the rear deck off.  

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FWIW I talked to several oil suppliers in my area about the 10W oil as I had never bought any before. They all told me that the 10W oil that it specified basically didn’t exist anymore. They said that “new” 10W oil is nothing like what 10W was in the 60’s. No supplier had any here and didn’t express any interest in getting me some. They all wanted to sell me whatever hydraulic/transmission oil they were peddling. I ended up with John Deere Hy-Guard in mine because we already keep that in bulk. Hy-Guard is 10W oil. I don’t know what the correct answer is. Things have changed so much since these were new I can never get a definitive answer about what will or won’t work and why. 

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So, Whitney are you saying your machine does not slip anymore?  Hope so.  They steer nice when adjusted properly.  You may just have to disassemble the boosters to determine what you need.  I don't remember anything special as far as soft parts in them.  A local seal house, if you have one close by could match things up.  If you remove and disassemble them be sure to replace the small roll pin in the lever that the small control rod hooks to.  They are known to shear and if they do your lever will become hard to pull. 

I have seen oil turn gray when water is induced particularly in an engine.  Could even be condensation.   Most machinery dealers have oil sample programs.  Pick up one of their sample bottles and have it tested.  Doesn't cost much.  Hard to throw away 40 gals of oil.  AW32 is probably ok for the application.  Back in the day 10W oil was used in the bigger machines, 15's, 20's 25's while at the same time hi-tran was used in the smaller machines, td7's and 8's.  Same basic components, different division decisions I guess.

Have fun.  That's good news if the machine is working as it should.  Dennis

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I haven't pushed anything with it since but it turns really easy and on a dime  so confident that was it. I feel better now as I'm planning some terrace and tile work later this fall. Ill do some checking on oil test and this winter try dig into the boosters. Its my first and only dozer ever ran and done a lot of work with it. Pretty clean for its age and the straight pipe was cool for about the first hour as has a muffler on it now!

 

Thanks again everyone

Whitney

dozer 1.jpg

dozer 2.jpg

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