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4386 - Why does the replacment turbo not fit?? Advice needed, 2SE Borg Warner 167336


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Guys, this tractor is kicking my ass.

Other post was me complaining trying to find a replacement quality turbo, then I happened to find one after a massive search and it's even a genuine Borg Warner S2E part number 167336 which I'm 98% sure is the turbo I need for my 4386 tractor, but it doesn't fit. Pictures attached

 

Is this the correct turbo for my tractor? Online and everywhere I look says it interchanges with the 4386, but mine is a early serial numbered unit so I'm now wondering if the later serial numbered 4386's maybe had a different intake??? And I'm not sure what to do with this one now, do I figure out how to make it work, or try to get a refund on it and just say to **** with it and look for a old T04 OEM turbo? It's so close to fitting but I just don't have enough room to spin the compressor side of the turbo to line up

I could try to cut the intake manifold a bit to give more room to turn but there is a ridge on it for the hose clamp to grab onto so I wouldn't be able to remove much material so that idea seems a bit sketchy... The part number on the manifold inlet on the tractor is 686148C1

 

Has anyone installed one of these S2E turbo's on this model tractor before and has some advice?

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There is no bolts in the back of the exhaust flange, there is actually a small gap back there because the intake is hitting.

So the picture may look like the exhaust is mounted/bolted down, but it's not. I just put the 2 front bolts in just to keep it from sliding off and to size things up

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most new turbos require you to clock them upon installation. First bolt to exh manifold, second rotate center to align oil drain pipe, tighten exh side bolts. Third, rotate intake housing to align with crossover, then tighten those bolts. This is standard operating procedure with tractor turbos.  I'd take those large flat washers off too. 

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Readjust the turbo to exhaust housing loosen the bolts in between the housings and  rotate to the desired location  and angle , I've done that on about everyone I've replaced 

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56 minutes ago, ksfarmdude said:

Readjust the turbo to exhaust housing loosen the bolts in between the housings and  rotate to the desired location  and angle , I've done that on about everyone I've replaced 

I think he's saying he's not able to rotate the compressor housing because it's hitting the intake pipe. Plus the turbo isn't fully mounted, so it's only going to get closer when he does. I agree with what you're saying. This one does look a little odd to me. 

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If its the correct Turbo  Did he compare it to the old one for length of the intake side ? If the exhaust flange is bolted down tight he may have to trim the intake manifold inlet to get better alighment

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Guys, this is a S2E turbo that IS "supposed" to fit the 4386 w DTI-466.  You know, the one everybody recommends to replace the old TO4??   BigTom looked long & hard to find one.   And it won't fit no matter how you rotate it.    Is this common with the S2E on an intercooled tractor?   Should he grind the intake pipe down?   Shorten the turbo outlet flange?  He needs about 1/4" - so 1/8" off each?

 That whole setup looks exactly like my old one (best picture I got included).   I guess I would not be afraid to trim off the intake - I'd point out that you have very little chance of the hose blowing off when the two flanges are smack up against each other, so don't worry about the "Step" too much.    I have a vague memory of maybe having to grind some of both turbo & inlet - but I'm not sure.

Oh, and bend that injector tube just enough to clear the intake - rubbing is bad

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14 hours ago, TB5288 said:

I think he's saying he's not able to rotate the compressor housing because it's hitting the intake pipe. Plus the turbo isn't fully mounted, so it's only going to get closer when he does. I agree with what you're saying. This one does look a little odd to me. 

That's exactly it, both sides of the turbo were loose and spun easily, if I lined up the intake pipe and turbo outlet and slid them forward they'd hit before the bolt holes on the exhaust would line up (I could see about 1/3 of the bolt hole from the top) but if I rotated the turbo back so that I could line up the bolt holes then I couldn't get the turbo outlet to line up. And yes I didn't have the back bolts installed when I was trying, I just slapped 2 bolts in the front and put a nut on one a couple threads just so I didn't risk the turbo falling off while I was tinkering, if I actually put all 4 bolts in and snugged them up then for sure it would get tighter. 

 

This is, from the limited information I could find, a simple drop in replacement so that's why I was wondering if maybe my motor had a different intake manifold since it's an early motor or maybe there was a redesign somewhere along the way, but that was just me scratching my head why it didn't fit

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16 hours ago, Injpumped said:

most new turbos require you to clock them upon installation. First bolt to exh manifold, second rotate center to align oil drain pipe, tighten exh side bolts. Third, rotate intake housing to align with crossover, then tighten those bolts. This is standard operating procedure with tractor turbos.  I'd take those large flat washers off too. 

Thank you again for the info, you've always been a great source of info and advice. 

What you described is basically what I was trying to do, everything else seemed to line up just fine the oil piping and drain and the turbo inlet hose etc, it's just the output wouldn't allow me to get it in the right place. I haven't seen any forum talk about having to slightly modify the manifold intake to make this turbo work with this motor which is why I was surprised it doesn't seem like it fits quite right, it's definitely close... but not quite there. 

 

And yes those washers look like **** lol I swear it was just temp while I was trying to line things up! 

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25 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Guys, this is a S2E turbo that IS "supposed" to fit the 4386 w DTI-466.   BigTom looked long & hard to find one.   And it won't fit no matter how you rotate that.

 That whole setup looks exactly like my old one (best picture I got included).   I guess I would not be afraid to trim off the intake - I'd point out that you have very little chance of the hose blowing off when the two flanges are smack up against each other, so don't worry about the "Step" too much.    I have a vague memory of maybe having to grind some of both turbo & inlet - but I'm not sure.

 

That's kindof my next thought is what do I have to loose if I trim that manifold to allow it to fit... worst case I mess it up and have to go on the hunt to find a replacement, and I'm sure there would be lots at tractor wreckers since it's likely not a really sought after piece. Best case get things to clear properly and get the turbo installed. If I'm careful I could keep the gap between the output and the intake very small and then the hose going over should seal easily even if I had to cut/grind off that little bung or bulge that normally the hose clamp goes behind

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7 minutes ago, Straanger said:

I’ve never worked on one of these, but I think I would rather make a spacer for the exhaust flange start cutting things up. But that’s just me.

Your not alone in your thinking! My father in law the old farmer who's turned more wrenches then likely anyone I know was eyeing that up also, wondering if it would be possible to move or modify the exhaust to move it out just enough that it would fit. I think it would end up being more work in the end versus trimming the manifold though, just because all the oil lines would need to be bent/modified slightly, and the large inlet pipe "should" have enough flex in it to fit but might not... modifying the exhaust side of things requires the rest to also be modified. Modifying the outlet, the other areas all fit normally

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41 minutes ago, BigTom209 said:

Thank you again for the info, you've always been a great source of info and advice. 

What you described is basically what I was trying to do, everything else seemed to line up just fine the oil piping and drain and the turbo inlet hose etc, it's just the output wouldn't allow me to get it in the right place. I haven't seen any forum talk about having to slightly modify the manifold intake to make this turbo work with this motor which is why I was surprised it doesn't seem like it fits quite right, it's definitely close... but not quite there. 

 

And yes those washers look like **** lol I swear it was just temp while I was trying to line things up! 

I don't think I'm alone in saying when I first saw that picture, that appeared to be a rubber hose coming off the intake, and it was a simple matter of just re-clocking the turbine for best alignment.

How much short do you figure it is from fitting?

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I don't think I'm alone in saying when I first saw that picture, that appeared to be a rubber hose coming off the intake, and it was a simple matter of just re-clocking the turbine for best alignment.

How much short do you figure it is from fitting?

That makes sense, I was hoping people didn't think I wasn't smart enough to simply rotate the turbo compressor housing but yeah if people thought it was just the rubber hose it would look like a simple job. When I originally put it on I had the hose attached and the output lined up and then slid it on but it smacked the metal on the intake manifold, but I couldn't get the bolts in so I was like what the heck... so I took the hose off to see what was going on. Then I was trying to rotate the compressor housing out of the way so I could get the bolts in and then yeah, once I could start the bolts there was no way I could rotate it into place. 

And like Snoshoe said, I'm guessing I'd need to cut off 1/4" or more of the intake manifold to allow enough room to rotate it into place and I "think" the tube on the intake manifold is straight enough I could still get a hose/clamp on it and seal it... so likely that's what I'm going to end up doing is removing the intake, modify it, test fit it until it works, then cut a new seal for the manifold since my luck I'll wreck the old one, then put it back together. I just didn't think I'd need to do this since every article/forum post people using this turbo on this motor I never read anyone having to modify anything, so I'm not sure why mines slightly off

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I have not mounted one of these and can not answer why it doesn't fit. First thought was to shim one or both manifolds from head. You've already thought of that. Would like to point out that all material does not have to be removed from one spot. Both ends of that intake pipe can be milled as well as turbo outlet. In addition turbo mounting holes can be slotted slightly. A few 32nds each place and ribs will be intact plus have clearance for thermal expansion.

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Been listening to not and not having enough info but I think I had a similar problem.Yes it would not rotate bolted to the exhaust manifold. In your situation you need to get everything in a similar alignment before you bolt the centre section down then align intake , exhaust and tighten. 
Since your installation is tight a won’t pass b(turbo in take arc) without enough clearance in the arc to clear c ( the fixed intake manifold arc), thus holding up your interference. 
 

nust my thoughts, John

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Well, now you got me concerned. Want to change my turbo and manifold on my early serial number 4386. Seems it is not as easy as it seems. 🤔

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10 minutes ago, ChrisNY said:

Well, now you got me concerned. Want to change my turbo and manifold on my early serial number 4386. Seems it is not as easy as it seems. 🤔

I wonder if as mentioned above it is because of the intercooler. Our 4366 has the cooler also 

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10 hours ago, bitty said:

I wonder if as mentioned above it is because of the intercooler. Our 4366 has the cooler also 

Your 4366 must have had intercooler added at some point as the 66’s did not come with one originally 

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11 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

@BigTom209 where did you get your turbo from?

 
DSG Power Systems (aka Saskatoon Diesel) were able to source the turbo, they must have a different supplier then damn near anyone else in North America because I called lots of big turbo shops in the US and Canada and no one had one or could get one, these guys had it in my hands within 3 days of ordering it and price was reasonably cheap at the same time. 
 
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14 hours ago, Weapon said:

Been listening to not and not having enough info but I think I had a similar problem.Yes it would not rotate bolted to the exhaust manifold. In your situation you need to get everything in a similar alignment before you bolt the centre section down then align intake , exhaust and tighten. 
Since your installation is tight a won’t pass b(turbo in take arc) without enough clearance in the arc to clear c ( the fixed intake manifold arc), thus holding up your interference. 
 

nust my thoughts, John

 

I get what you're saying, but first kick at the can I actually had the hose installed on the intake and inserted the turbo outlet first and slid the setup into place until the metal of the turbo hit the intake manifold metal, and when I looked down I couldn't get the bolts in the holes I could only see about 1/3 of the bolt hole for the exhaust looking from the top. That's when I rotated the turbo out of the way to get the bolts to kindof line up enough I could insert 2 bolts, but then there was no way to turn the turbo to line up. 

 

There just isn't quite enough room as-is. I still think my best bet moving forward is to cut the intake manifold until the turbo can slide into place

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When we put 3lm on ours, we had to grid/ cut to fit. Had the same exact problem you have. Was literally just taking little off at a time till was able to put boot on. That 1/4-3/8 number sounds correct. Hope this is helpful. 

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12 hours ago, ChrisNY said:

Well, now you got me concerned. Want to change my turbo and manifold on my early serial number 4386. Seems it is not as easy as it seems. 🤔

 

The more I look at the pictures and come to terms with it, I think it's not a huge issue having to cut/grind that intake to fit. I'll take it slow, cut a smidge here and a smidge there until it fits, if it takes 20 trips back and forth to the shop so be it! 

 

BTW, my tractor is number 1044 and yours is 1053... pretty neat our tractors may have been on the assembly line at the same time! 

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