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Small Square Bale Accumulators


Cdfarabaugh
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5 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  For a lot of years the accumulator system at least as made by Farmhand was a whole lot cheaper than a NH and back in the day there were not many used NH units to buy.  The grapple system allows a farmer to be more efficient with an irregular configured building than the NH.  For some dairies it was hard to tie up 10,000-15,000 dollars in a 1033 or 1034 when another tractor could be put to work elsewhere when it was not on grapple duty.  Of course with small bales being far less prevalent the price on the used NH's have come done tremendously in recent times.  When the kids and the cousins were no longer around to make hay farmers just bought a round baler and round hay bales sometimes had to go through a rain or two out in the field before they got moved.  Could not do that with the small squares.  

What I like about NH wagons is its one swift operation and faster. The accumulator system is cheaper but you still have to go through the process of loading and unloading.   I used to have a couple neighbors that always bought a load of hay and straw for the barn loft.  Pretty easy pick the load, run the 10 miles down the road to their place and dump the load. Plus it eliminates a tractor which I thought would be a plus for some operations.  We bought our first bale wagon in the early 80s which was a locally made Kirchner.  Worked great except it tied up a $48,000 tractor.  Plus we were hauling up to a couple miles from home.  So we traded it for a wore out NH 1047.  When the engine let go in that one, next up was a wore out 1069.  And then one year I found a mind condition Super 1049 for $18,000.  So got rid of the 1069 for the 1049 used now.  https://pami.ca/pdfs/reports_research_updates/(11a) Bale Transporters/137.PDF

 

137.PDF

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On 7/17/2022 at 8:30 PM, Cdfarabaugh said:

This year a real game changer came out of left field and we picked up a hay buyer to pay a premium price for 1st crop small square bales.  Yes, I know they're idiot bricks but in reality NOTHING sells like them both demand and price wise.  The only down side is they're going into 53' van trailers for a backhaul and the scheduling can be screwy, but the inconvenience is worth the money.  

Where we are running into issues is unloading bottlenecks.  We have a nice thrower baler and a few 9x18 racks but with my dad and uncle getting up there, and my time to help limited some days we just get the hay off too dang slow.  Were likely leaving 20 acres sit to.waste this year as it just got too ripe.  A lot we made wasn't t much better either.  This stuff wasnt junk either, it was very sellable hay up until july 1st.  Sickens me this was money left "on the table" 

The more I think an accumulator setup would really help this process out. Can still use other baler for smaller amounts but could fire up the accumulator and bale 2000 bales a day easy.  

What setups does everyone and what works best for loading a van trailer?  Honestly I dont mind hand loading them but would like to have the option.  

Is the trailer drop and hook for you to load it, or do you load while the driver waits?

Does he drop the trailer off at his destination or do they unload it?

It would be convenient if you could stack on pallets and “shrink wrap the bales with net wrap. It would require some labor but loading a trailer would be quicker and convenient especially if the driver is waiting.

You would probably need a dock to drive into the trailer to load with a forklift or skidsteer with forks. 
 
For overall convenience I think an accumulator/grapple setup would be a nice economical way (more so than a bale-bandit system) and be labor efficient.

You could have a “staging area” where you stack your bales to the height of the trailer then push them into the trailer thereby avoiding the issue of dead space on the top of the load.

Just my 2 cents…

edited to add, I’m seeing A LOT of old tough hay being baled in August and sold for premium horse hay!  It’s hay a dairy farmer would chop for bedding, or maybe  heifer hay if feed was tight, yet these horse people seem to like it. 

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1 hour ago, TN Hillbilly said:

We use this.  Parrish is the brand.  Pulls behind baler.  10 bale with 2 turned sideways as tie bales.  Never loaded a van trailer, but you can load other trailers from the back and push the stack forward.  I would think van trailers would be easier.  We carry ours from the field and stack in barn with grapple if it isn't too far.  Load trailers if it is.

 

 

Never heard of that brand.  Looks like it works great watching their video.  Only thing I don't like is it drags the bales on the ground.  Probably a non issue for you but for us it might be.  

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4 minutes ago, Ihfan4life said:

I’m seeing A LOT of old tough hay being baled in August and sold for premium horse hay!  It’s hay a dairy farmer would chop for bedding, or maybe  heifer hay if feed was tight, yet these horse people seem to like it. 

When it gets much past the 1st-2nd week of july we usually  begin to write it off and its cow hay.  This year it really went  the other way fast as hot and dry as it was.  Maybe we are too fussy lol

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2 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Never heard of that brand.  Looks like it works great watching their video.  Only thing I don't like is it drags the bales on the ground.  Probably a non issue for you but for us it might be.  

I think in straw or maybe alfalfa it might create problems, but we've had no issues in grass hay.  We mow 3-4", so there is plenty of stubble and no dirt, rocks, etc contacting the bales.  Plus our hay is pretty thick, so the bales aren't in there that long before it dumps.  The bottom of the bales look "combed" but that's about the only noticeable thing from using it.  That, and a back and feet that don't hurt at the end of the day!

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6 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

When it gets much past the 1st-2nd week of july we usually  begin to write it off and its cow hay.  This year it really went  the other way fast as hot and dry as it was.  Maybe we are too fussy lol

It needs to be removed from the field or next year's hay will have dead stuff in it. Mowing and baling helps with the costs unlike brush hog method 

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14 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  For a lot of years the accumulator system at least as made by Farmhand was a whole lot cheaper than a NH and back in the day there were not many used NH units to buy.  The grapple system allows a farmer to be more efficient with an irregular configured building than the NH.  For some dairies it was hard to tie up 10,000-15,000 dollars in a 1033 or 1034 when another tractor could be put to work elsewhere when it was not on grapple duty.  Of course with small bales being far less prevalent the price on the used NH's have come done tremendously in recent times.  When the kids and the cousins were no longer around to make hay farmers just bought a round baler and round hay bales sometimes had to go through a rain or two out in the field before they got moved.  Could not do that with the small squares.  

Oh I get the WHY. It just irritates me how inefficient the process is.

Take for example that video of the bale grapple moving a whopping 8 bales at once. In the time it takes to position the grapple over the bunch of bales, pick them up, maneuver over to the wagon, line up on the pile, and lay the bales down, two healthy guys could have loaded and stacked 16 bales from the ground. If they had a bale loader to get them up on the wagon, the two guys could share the stacking duty and do even more. Take it one step further by adding a kicker to the baler and sides to the wagon, and the bales get off the field with zero guys touching them.

Chasing round bales 2 at a time drives me up a wall. All that wear and tear on the tractor. All the wear and tear on the field. All the fuel burned. It can only be viewed as a necessary evil.

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18 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

How much do you (and others with a kuhns setup) have to allow for back pressure into the bale case? 

How good do the stacks stay on wagons?  

Our baler is a new Holland with the hydraulic tension. We run the pressure in the middle to lower side of the green on the gauge. The adjustable hay doors/wedges are removed and it makes a tight bale. We used it on a nh 565 with I think 2 wedges removed and maybe backed off the springs a little. The stacking on wagons depends more on operates ability but it does pretty good. I usually throw a strap on the rear when getting on the main road.IMG_20210905_194646241.thumb.jpg.4296ce75332ce0e97391fe69c6143c61.jpg

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1 minute ago, 885 said:

Our baler is a new Holland with the hydraulic tension. We run the pressure in the middle to lower side of the green on the gauge. The adjustable hay doors/wedges are removed and it makes a tight bale. We used it on a nh 565 with I think 2 wedges removed and maybe backed off the springs a little. The stacking on wagons depends more on operates ability but it does pretty good. I usually throw a strap on the rear when getting on the main road.IMG_20210905_194646241.thumb.jpg.4296ce75332ce0e97391fe69c6143c61.jpg

My baler is a rebadged 5070. It's the exact same baler case some don't know. I run my pressure on number 1 on dry hay and produces a 60# bale. That's straight alfalfa, no grass mixed in

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Oh I get the WHY. It just irritates me how inefficient the process is.

Take for example that video of the bale grapple moving a whopping 8 bales at once. In the time it takes to position the grapple over the bunch of bales, pick them up, maneuver over to the wagon, line up on the pile, and lay the bales down, two healthy guys could have loaded and stacked 16 bales from the ground. If they had a bale loader to get them up on the wagon, the two guys could share the stacking duty and do even more. Take it one step further by adding a kicker to the baler and sides to the wagon, and the bales get off the field with zero guys touching them.

Chasing round bales 2 at a time drives me up a wall. All that wear and tear on the tractor. All the wear and tear on the field. All the fuel burned. It can only be viewed as a necessary evil.

The problem is trying to find 2 healthy guys. There has been no one willing to do manual hay labor here since the late 90's. And it isn't as inefficient as one might think. We meaning 2 people have baled and stacked in the barn 1000 bales in an evening with a Kuhn's system. We used to have a new Holland 1034 bale wagon and for us it works better to use a accumulator. In our sheds we can get more in than with a stack wagon. The wagon was 7 bales high. With this we go 9 bales high and 2 packs wide. Couldn't do that with a stack wagon due to the width. We use 2 trucks and trailers so per trip we can potentially take 300-320 bales. That would have been 3 trips with a stack wagon. I view the accumulator bale packs as a round bale shaped different. When you look at it that way then there really isn't much difference in them. A pack of 10 weighs 6 to 700 pounds and a dry 4x5 realistically isn't much more weight. It takes the same time to load a roll on a trailer as it does to load a pack of square bales. And stacking in the barn is the same way. Plus you can charge same price in the field as in the barn since you can load for the guy in no time.

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2 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Oh I get the WHY. It just irritates me how inefficient the process is.

Take for example that video of the bale grapple moving a whopping 8 bales at once. In the time it takes to position the grapple over the bunch of bales, pick them up, maneuver over to the wagon, line up on the pile, and lay the bales down, two healthy guys could have loaded and stacked 16 bales from the ground. If they had a bale loader to get them up on the wagon, the two guys could share the stacking duty and do even more. Take it one step further by adding a kicker to the baler and sides to the wagon, and the bales get off the field with zero guys touching them.

Chasing round bales 2 at a time drives me up a wall. All that wear and tear on the tractor. All the wear and tear on the field. All the fuel burned. It can only be viewed as a necessary evil.

I'm a pretty healthy fellow and dont shy from work (so long as it's not useless busy work) and 1, 2, 3 loads is pretty easy.  It's when you have 6 or 7 sitting in the morning staring you in the face to unload that you start to think differently.  We dont unload during the day other than a load or 2 if needed, it waits till early next morning.  

This takes a good part of the morning up, and remember you dont get an afternoon siesta as it's usually go time again that afternoon.  Its begins a vicious cycle lol.

It's an opportunity to get a lot more done and not feel like collapsing at the end of the day, or having to fret making phone calls finding help the next morning.  

Also,  I couldnt see paying a penny less than $150 per hard day for someone if they were good help.   Any less and someone could make almost as good of money slinging pizzas or some other easy job.   This quickly starts to pay for that "unnecessary equipment" 

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It would look like a way to sell the bales by "a packet" sized amount (the number of bales the grapple can hold), pick them up off the stack, load them directly onto the customer's little car hauler sized trailer, or set them down, and then stack them on the pickup by hand, at an additional fee, of course.

Discount the price by maybe a dollar per bale, and I would think that the horse people, and their horse(s) would be happy.

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Lots of hay baled with a big square or round and rebaled at time of delivery in small square with a machine that unwinds round or bumps apart the big square in the pickup of the rebaler . I know of two of these systems 

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  So few were able to have buildings to take advantage of the NH wagon around here.  Probably 90 percent of those seeking to advance automation had to make due with buildings that were several decades old.  These buildings were typically too short or were not a straight shot to all parts of that building to use a NH bale wagon.  Then the issue with an upstairs floor that would not support a fully loaded NH.  105 bale NH would weigh around 8,500 lbs or more on (4) 9.5 X 15 tires.  

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2 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

Any less and someone could make almost as good of money slinging pizzas or some other easy job.

Wow, you're the first person on a farm-related forum site I've come across that didn't have the attitude that kids should be unloading hay for $1 a load and all the milkhouse water they can drink, and that they're doing the kids a favor.

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5 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Oh I get the WHY. It just irritates me how inefficient the process is.

Take for example that video of the bale grapple moving a whopping 8 bales at once. In the time it takes to position the grapple over the bunch of bales, pick them up, maneuver over to the wagon, line up on the pile, and lay the bales down, two healthy guys could have loaded and stacked 16 bales from the ground. If they had a bale loader to get them up on the wagon, the two guys could share the stacking duty and do even more. Take it one step further by adding a kicker to the baler and sides to the wagon, and the bales get off the field with zero guys touching them.

Chasing round bales 2 at a time drives me up a wall. All that wear and tear on the tractor. All the wear and tear on the field. All the fuel burned. It can only be viewed as a necessary evil.

You'd be surprised how many around here haven't figured out the 2 bale thing yet.

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29 minutes ago, yellowrosefarm said:

You'd be surprised how many around here haven't figured out the 2 bale thing yet.

  You do what you have to do with hay or you get out.  For some the round bale way is the only option especially if the old hay barn fell to the ground decades ago with no money to replace it.  I know of very few who put up hay in style regardless of the system.  Just not a big money maker anymore especially with more hay coming in from other parts of the US.  If it ever got railed in like a few extension guys predicted a couple of decades ago you would see a lot of hay equipment for sale or heading for scrap here in NY.  

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19 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  You do what you have to do with hay or you get out.  For some the round bale way is the only option especially if the old hay barn fell to the ground decades ago with no money to replace it.  I know of very few who put up hay in style regardless of the system.  Just not a big money maker anymore especially with more hay coming in from other parts of the US.  If it ever got railed in like a few extension guys predicted a couple of decades ago you would see a lot of hay equipment for sale or heading for scrap here in NY.  

Sorry for the derailment of the thread .. then I found out that I don't have any pictures of the wagons we haul in on . Running a 3x4 baler now. One picture shows what happens when you forget to turn monitor on, light bales really often . I cary two bales at a time round or square always unless they are further away than the wagon 

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Oooo, I missed Bitty’s pics.  Never seen a dual wheel discbine or swather 

Bitty, are the 3x4’s treated with a preservative? Guys that do those here, use acid on everything. Maybe not if it’s under 10%, but I almost think so 

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10 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

We have no problem selling small square hay in NY. Within 5 miles of me, nearly 100k gets baled and sold, mostly goes out of state 

  When there were more dairies in ENY more WNY hay went into New England.  Many of those former ENY dairies now ship hay into NE.  

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Wow, you're the first person on a farm-related forum site I've come across that didn't have the attitude that kids should be unloading hay for $1 a load and all the milkhouse water they can drink, and that they're doing the kids a favor.

Doesnt take a 4 year degree to realize the better you pay, the better candidates you get who will work hard, be on time, and be dependable.  I dont need people who make excuses.  When we grew potatoes we paid $12 an hour.  People showed up on ntime and stayed till we were done AND came back year after year retaining experience.  That's worth way more than the extra money we paid out

 

2 hours ago, bitty said:

Lots of hay baled with a big square or round and rebaled at time of delivery in small square with a machine that unwinds round or bumps apart the big square in the pickup of the rebaler . I know of two of these systems 

Our old hay buyer went to doing that.  Only bad thing theres LOTS of leaf loss getting pounded around like that.  But do horse people know any better? 

Also would love to do big bales but I'm still not keen with the moisture you need to get them down to to keep, and the amount of acid you have to douse them with being it went WAY up in price this year.  

Even the round bales we make if they're not nuclear dry they will get a bit funky inside not treated. 

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3 hours ago, Art From Coleman said:

 

Discount the price by maybe a dollar per bale, and I would think that the horse people, and their horse(s) would be happy.

I about feel off my chair laughing.  HORSE PEOPLE HAPPY  Never seems to happen in my world.

Horses are luxury thing in most cases.  They keep telling all their friends how smart they our and what the other is doing wrong.  Soon none of them know anything. It is like talking to the horse to explain anything about nutrition  to a real horsy person. 

Because timothy and orchard grass just don't grow in my world, but somebody said it was the best every feed store has it. With a good mark up as well as a 1000 mile of transport.  We can grow the finest oat or mixed grain  (oats,wheat,barley) hay in the world. Just because grandfather managed to keep 30 plus head to make a team to pull a combine, that worked 6 days a week back in the day on it. So how would I know anything. What ever is cheap and easy is wrong until their friend say it was her idea.

If you can put up with BS good money in horse hay, but my patience has run out. So I just make hay for my livestock. Until somebody comes an asks nice, if I have extra.

 

What is the matter with you Art, your using common sense. A horsy person never has never will. 

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23 hours ago, JamesW said:

Those who call them idiot bales are fools... ya need to understand if you sell big bales you are selling wholesale. If you are selling small you it's retail prices Work out the dollars per pound, at least around here..... and no need to handle them them by hand.

Our setup from way back in the 70's, nothing new here, and still in use for maybe 8,000 bales a year

 

Hay auction here sells by the ton so it doesn't matter what shape it's in.

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