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"Over Engineering" Is NOT Simplification


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And, just how in the **** does one remember where EVERYTHING goes, and in what order?

Just think of the potential for lots of squeaks and rattles.

And, I think there is at least one more video of it going back together.

What a cluster****.

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Ever replace a heater core in a dodge pickup???  Especially if it's 4 door. Seats, dash and all come out. Not the best planning if you ask me. 

While I'm joining the band wagon here, how about pulling the heads on the ford 6.7???  Ford factory procedure is to pull the cab off the frame. Yup that's right. And I'm one of those big dummies who hopes I never have to. 😂😂

Mark

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Im not a huge tech user but some things do come in handy....i take pictures when ever working on something i never have or to the scope of ripping things apart like the video...that said i dont work on many things newer than 1980. 

Pictures have saved me many times...

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,Not sure what customer would approve that as its goingvto be a huge bill.  I think I would deal with it freezing up manually by periodically switching it off.  

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Some Audi require windshield removal. Heater cores and evap should be a removable assembly without disassembly of the whole vehicle. Lifting cab off for engine work is insane.

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Had a 95 Camaro if you where taking the engine out it went out the bottom with the front suspension, i think most late model cars these days have gone to that, if you had to change the fuel pump the rear end had to come out to drop the tank or you could cut a hole in the floor like i seen a guy in high school do to a iroc z-28, ford and gm diesel pickups the proper way to put head gaskets or major engine work is to pull the cab, late model tractors are getting just as bad deere 6420's have a hydraulic line prone for going bad under the cab you got to tilt the cab over to get to it but i guess tilting maybe easier than full removal. Friend of mine's daughter had a mazda 6 maybe? 10 years ago they had to take the door off to get the dash out to replace a heater core, the early toyota tundras with the v6 the starter was under the intake the next gen after that with the v8 to change the starter the exhaust manifold has to come off pass side along with wheel inner fender and a couple other odds n ends 

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1 hour ago, New Englander said:

Some Audi require windshield removal. Heater cores and evap should be a removable assembly without disassembly of the whole vehicle. Lifting cab off for engine work is insane.

One thing in their defense is that they really perfected the design to be easier to pull cabs.  Taking 2 hours to do that really makes the rest if the job enjoyable

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Yep three days to change vent valve and heater core 

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1 hour ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

One thing in their defense is that they really perfected the design to be easier to pull cabs.  Taking 2 hours to do that really makes the rest if the job enjoyable

They have been saying to lift the cab off for years, which means they have had plenty of time to come up with something better than that. If they are going to make a COE pickup, then there should be some way to tilt the cab. 

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The newer Magnums have it so you have to pull the cab in order to do transmission work on them. 2-3 hours and the cab is on the floor on stands. Much easier to work with/access than working under the cab the way we've done it since the 86 series IHs. 

Now, the engineer that came up with removing the engine oil pan to remove the rotor gearbox on a newer, bigger Flagship combine deserves a special place in Hades for that design. You cant get your thumb between the oilpan and gearbox when everything is in place.  

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3 hours ago, Gearclash said:

Lifting the Ford cab has been a common practice since the 6.0.

 

On the same truck even........☺️

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I picked up a 1956 Pontiac last year that had been in a barn since 1989. Started working on it a few weeks ago and runs great. New tank, brakes, tires and fuel pump. They should build cars like that again. Very simple to work on and easy access to everything. This is picture of it taken last year.

Resized_20210727_162517.jpeg

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12 hours ago, td9inidaho said:

Ever replace a heater core in a dodge pickup???  Especially if it's 4 door. Seats, dash and all come out. Not the best planning if you ask me. 

While I'm joining the band wagon here, how about pulling the heads on the ford 6.7???  Ford factory procedure is to pull the cab off the frame. Yup that's right. And I'm one of those big dummies who hopes I never have to. 😂😂

Mark

I almost always removed the front seats if I was pulling a dash even if I didn't need to. It gives me more room to lay on the floor and I can put the seats someplace they wont get dirty during the job.

Ford has had some real blunders in the last couple decades. After using spark plugs with no issues for literally 100 years they made cylinder heads that would just eject the spark plugs at random. They followed that by redesigning them with a completely new spark plug that wont come out even if you want it to. If they are too stuck then you will have to remove the head. Step 1 to remove the head: Pull the cab.

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13 minutes ago, gearheadmb said:

I almost always removed the front seats if I was pulling a dash even if I didn't need to. It gives me more room to lay on the floor and I can put the seats someplace they wont get dirty during the job.

Ford has had some real blunders in the last couple decades. After using spark plugs with no issues for literally 100 years they made cylinder heads that would just eject the spark plugs at random. They followed that by redesigning them with a completely new spark plug that wont come out even if you want it to. If they are too stuck then you will have to remove the head. Step 1 to remove the head: Pull the cab.

That works on a pickup truck. My brother just bought an '05 Navigator with the same engine. Will the entire body need to come off in the event of a spark plug failure/head removal?

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55 minutes ago, arizonian said:

That works on a pickup truck. My brother just bought an '05 Navigator with the same engine. Will the entire body need to come off in the event of a spark plug failure/head removal?

Probably have to use the same technique used on a Nissan Armada.  Need to work on the exhaust manifolds or replace spark plugs?  Step one . . . jack up the front and remove the wheels.  Step two . . . Remove the inner fender liner.  Step three . . . Think midget thoughts.  Man am I glad that POS went down the road.

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I owned the exact same truck, same level trim, new in 2011, when it was just out of warranty A blend door actuator went bad in it and they told me it was complete interior removal required to do the job. I traded the truck. About six months later my buddy had one, same truck, same problem, his failed while  still under warranty and the dealership did do the job. It took them two full days to do it and the interior was completely out. I did not watch the video above, but I remember the dash, the seats, center consul, They even removed the brake pedal and gas pedal brackets from the firewall and removed them. It was gutted. He traded his truck shortly there after.

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19 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

Remove the inner fender liner

The good thing, though, is the plastic inner fender on lots of vehicles are held in by plastic retainers that pop out easily if you have the right tools. I just changed an O2 sensor on my wife's Yukon that you could hardly see top or bottom. Up on the lift, wheel off, inner fender off, and it was in the open. whole job 45 minutes top. Easy to get at the wires too. Once you commit it's the easy way.

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14 hours ago, td9inidaho said:

Ever replace a heater core in a dodge pickup???  Especially if it's 4 door. Seats, dash and all come out. Not the best planning if you ask me. 

While I'm joining the band wagon here, how about pulling the heads on the ford 6.7???  Ford factory procedure is to pull the cab off the frame. Yup that's right. And I'm one of those big dummies who hopes I never have to. 😂😂

Mark

Neither of these issues is much of an issue for the mfg because heater cores, engines, and other internals, normally don't fail during the base warantee period.  When they to have failures it normally takes a class-action lawsuit to get results for the customer.

The cheap cracking plastic is designed to get past the warrantee. Self destruction at 50K miles and 10 years are  design features.

Good marketing is much more important than good engineering at corporate hq.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, arizonian said:

That works on a pickup truck. My brother just bought an '05 Navigator with the same engine. Will the entire body need to come off in the event of a spark plug failure/head removal?

No, you actually dont have to pull the body or the engine to remove the heads. The manual says you do, but the only reason is because you cant get the head bolts all the way out. If you lift the head bolts enough to clear the block and put a rubber band or zip tie around the bolts so they cant fall down you can remove the heads without all the nonsense.

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17 hours ago, New Englander said:

Some Audi require windshield removal. Heater cores and evap should be a removable assembly without disassembly of the whole vehicle. Lifting cab off for engine work is insane.

If the cab is designed to come off for engine work then it's not bad at all. Ford cabs come off easy from what I hear, some Ford techs say under an hour. And then you have all the room in the world to access whatever you want. Now it sucks for the at home guy, but is actually nice in a shop with a 2 post lift

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9 hours ago, 885 said:

If the cab is designed to come off for engine work then it's not bad at all. Ford cabs come off easy from what I hear, some Ford techs say under an hour. And then you have all the room in the world to access whatever you want. Now it sucks for the at home guy, but is actually nice in a shop with a 2 post lift

A crane company that I worked for, had several of those Ford’s, sometimes the mechanics would have 2 of them in the shop with the cabs off at the same time. They used a service truck crane or a small carry deck crane to lift the cab off.

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21 hours ago, Binderoid said:

No thanks.... looking at a plastic truck for 40 minutes is too long for me.

Better n' a metal truck that's rusted away to nothing in 5 years.

Dad bought one of those much-vaunted "metal" trucks brand new in a Chevy 1973. By 1979 it had been through multiple sets of fenders and was running out of metal to bolt the fenders to. He bought a near-new 1978 GMC to replace it and spent the next 10 years replacing body panels. The 89 lasted 11 years with zero body work. The 2000 was driven 18 years with no body work.

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