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IH 361/407 engine question


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What is the preferred method to true the cylinder bores on these engines when they are resleeved?  My understanding is they should have the block bore trued up, and then the liner bore trued and sized after it is installed.  

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I have not done one of these engines but plenty of others. Check block bore is round over full length and vertically true. If corrections need to be made oversize liner will be required. After pressing in new liner to correct interference fit check bore again and hone to correct finish and diameter for your ring type.  I tell my machinist to try and aim for bore tolerance if .00025” over entire length and same on diameter. He used to be a mould tool designer/maker so is used to tight tolerances.   I have never had a comeback from any of his work. 
I see a lot of engine failures blamed on poor parts but a majority of them are poor machining or assembly. Not saying that all parts are ok either. 
just be thorough and do everything to spec and you’ll be fine. Having said that I did a Perkins 4-248 with dry liners a few years ago.  Really cheap parts. Owner just wanted it bolted together as cheap as possible. I did as he asked but said I would not be responsible for any failures. 4500 hours later it’s still running well and uses no oil. 

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First off, I am not very smart on those engines. I have NEVER rebuilt one, but have installed sleeves in a number of them over the years. Maybe do an average of 1 a year. Local machine shop won't touch them. I pull sleeves then clean the bores and measure them top, center and bottom both inline with crank and 90* of crank. Once I have measured / recorded this I use a fixed cylinder hone and my trusty ole Milwaukee drill motor to "true up" bores. Measure again and record. Order sleeves as needed. Install per GSS-1346, using installation tool (FES 24-7) to get proper "stand-out". Record all measurements again as well as new pistons, matching them to closest bore. Next up hone newly installed sleeves to fit pistons to achieve "skirt clearance" again per GSS-1346. I actually enjoy the challenge of doing them.....

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1 hour ago, CIHTECH said:

Local machine shop won't touch them.

Curious as to why theyre afraid of them as its no different process from installing a repair sleeve in a parent bore engine (except for the pressing puck to set install height).  

Anymore on any dry sleeve engine i believe its best practice to have the liners removed and the bores trued up.  Then liners reinstalled and skirt clearance checked with each corresponding piston.  If needed finish hone.  Thats how these 361's and 407's were done new and why they lasted so long. 

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Any of these 361/407's that I've ever done, after sleeve installation, I take the bock back to the machine shop, along with a piston, and have them re-hone the sleeve to fit the piston.

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Do it right, or do it twice. 

Some only take .005, some take .010. But yes care needs to be taken on correct installation.

And many people think that the sleeve is bottomed into the counterpart of the block. That is not true. It is press in until there is .045? sleeve standout.

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A 361 is a different ball game than a 407 ,those  407 blocks seem to change more than 361 blocks and the sleeve setting procedure is different.

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The exact procedure I use . Never had a problem doing it this way .

machine shop around here wont touch these engines either .

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I grew up fixing those things and we found on 407s especially if the sleeves were tight and fairly close to specs we would leave them alone , just hone and rering them.  Maybe even put in pistons  if the lands were bad that was the practical way to do it might squeeze  another 20 years out of some of those tractors. Not the idealist way to do things  but the practical way to get customers going. Of course if you had sleeve problems then you had to get out the boring bar sometimes and true up a hole or so amazing how bad 407 blocks could get. A 361 almost never,

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Thanks for the replys!

I own an 856 with a tired 407 that I might want to freshen up some day maybe.  Seemed like a good hone would be sufficient to clean the bores up, but I wasn’t sure.  

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First off, I have found this thread to be most interesting and informative. I have had this 806D for about five years that I paid $1000.00 for with a stuck engine. After overhauling 2 gas engines. (farmall  230 and farmall M) I decided to tackle a Diesel engine. I call the 806 my trade school tractor because I tore it all apart and did get it running just as a learning project.  I do know that one of the liners it not that tight, the clutch is bad as is the T/A.  I have a short block from a salvage yard that claims it has 400 hrs since overhaul. The short block is black and a C block. So my first question, are there oversized liners available or do they have to be painted up with aluminum paint? Or should I take a chance on the short block? Also the injector pump and injectors have been overhauled and a new mcv pump has been installed.

Thanks in advance of you comments.

APF

 

 

 

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