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Oh will the neighbors be mad


AKwelder

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We installed a transfer switch on the shop a couple years ago and planned on installing a propane powered generac standby generator. A couple items changed my mind on the generator, mainly the fact that they are charging $8 a gallon for propane right now.  Add the fact I have to buy a buried propane tank for it to work reliably here in winter.

So why not install a diesel generator and pull of the shop heating oil tank?  Ok, enter my buddy, he has a Detroit 20Kw for trade, and he will throw in the parts.  Hmmm, lots cheaper, way more power (I would not even need to replace the electric dryer) and did I mention cheaper?

This will definitely be loud, and the neighbors will hear it. I only plan to use it during power outages and run it a couple times a year for exercise.
 

so here is a question I was wondering, with a 2-53 running 20 Kw how much fuel will it burn an hour or day?

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12 minutes ago, AKwelder said:


 

so here is a question I was wondering, with a 2-53 running 20 Kw how much fuel will it burn an hour or day?

I would be surprised if it would burn 1 gallon per hour. The old 671 Dad had was pretty easy on diesel, but would slobber 2 gallon of oil out per day. Brand new military surplus from ww2. 

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Following. Ive been looking for a diesel generator...something the likes of what u mention. Was wondering about fuel consumption.

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Made me get the calculator out...

Thermal efficiency of a Detroit is roughly 25%

kW to BTU is approx 1/3412... 20 kW Hr about 68,240 BTU

Since TE is .25 you need 4x BTU per kW.... roughly 273,000 BTU

One gallon of diesel perfectly burned is about 138,000 BTU

So, 273,000÷138,000 = 1.97 gallons.

What I'm not sure on, is if TE includes parasitic loss. If you fire that Detroit and run it without load, it would still burn 1 gallon an hr. I'm sure there's an equation for that too.

But, assume it uses 1 gallon an hr no load, and if producing a full 20 kW it would use an additional 1.97 gallons.

So final answer is about 3 GPH.

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6 minutes ago, Cattech said:

Made me get the calculator out...

Thermal efficiency of a Detroit is roughly 25%

kW to BTU is approx 1/3412... 20 kW Hr about 68,240 BTU

Since TE is .25 you need 4x BTU per kW.... roughly 273,000 BTU

One gallon of diesel perfectly burned is about 138,000 BTU

So, 273,000÷138,000 = 1.97 gallons.

What I'm not sure on, is if TE includes parasitic loss. If you fire that Detroit and run it without load, it would still burn 1 gallon an hr. I'm sure there's an equation for that too.

But, assume it uses 1 gallon an hr no load, and if producing a full 20 kW it would use an additional 1.97 gallons.

So final answer is about 3 GPH.

Thats good but he probably won't be pulling the full 20kw continuously so the 3 GPH is a max? like $18/hr??

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3 gph is not horrible for a couple days during a power outage.  I can burn a lot of fuel for the price difference to pencil out.

 

I expect a 120 hour a year average, and the Detroit would save me $8000 when I factor in the propane tank purchase.

 

the main drawback would be it is no where as automated or convenient.  

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I'm guessing you should buy lots and lots of ear plugs now ..... 

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How loud would it be in its own insulated building... i understand the exhaust noise outside but could it be muffled?

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AK whats he asking if u dont mind telling?

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Been years since we used it, but I have a 3-53 on a Delco 30kw ... would run two 8-hour days pulling 2 3inch submersible pumps... I was pretty young then but I distinctly remember that a full drum of fuel never fit in it. So the fuel tank must have been in the neighborhood of 50 gallons. 

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1 hour ago, Twolines said:

AK whats he asking if u dont mind telling?

It’s a trade deal, he owes me for a boiler deal and wants to trade it. We haven’t settled on the details

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3 hours ago, AKwelder said:

This will definitely be loud, and the neighbors will hear it.

If they call to complain, invite them over for a beer, and a dip in the hot tub............

Now they will be REALLY mad.........:lol:

Mike

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If they are that close, tell them to buy an extension cord and they can maybe keep their furnace running.

If they are getting some power, they will no longer hate the noise.

This is staying ahead of the complaint department?

 

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As far as muffler, a straight-through is not gonna cut it. In this case, you could actually be a little on the restricted side, as the generator is only turning 1800 rpm. Your exhaust configuration will ultimately depend on whether it has an aspirator on it. You will have to install the muffler on the downstream side. 
     I would really be surprised if that engine consumes 3 gallons per hour. In that case you’d be better off with a        C-264. That’s only 2.88 at full load.

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4 hours ago, int 504 said:

Thats good but he probably won't be pulling the full 20kw continuously so the 3 GPH is a max? like $18/hr??

I posted the assumptions for my math. You can figure kW to BTU, then equate thermal efficiency, total BTUs divide by BTU per gallon. As far as I can tell from quick and sloppy research, parasitic loss is not part of the equation. That would be what it burns at no load.

So assuming a 5kw load....

3412 x 5=17,060 BTU.

Now lets change it up and say we had the newest, latest generator that has say a 33.3% Thermal efficiency.... so you need 3x the BTU input for output...

17060x3= 51,080 BTU

The BTU number for a gallon of diesel varies greatly, but I averaged my quick Google search and came up with 138,000 BTU per gallon.

So 51080 BTU should take .37 gallons of fuel to make the 5kW at 33.3% efficiency.... going back to 25% would take that up to .49.

Thermal Efficiency is never constant in a reciprocating engine. It's all but impossible to predict true economy unless you can control the infinite variables. 

I have never been trained or educated on this either, the question just got me thinking about it and the numbers seem plausible.... so if someone can point to my error, I certainly will appreciate the education. 

 

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I honestly don't think mufflers help much on the 671-etc drop-troit series motors. I think it is mostly engine noise coming through the block. All of ours are loud 

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I have a winpower 15,000 / 25000 starting load pto generator and my 560 diesel will run for 24 hours on 20 gallons of #2 diesel. But heck that is nearly $10 a hour for fuel now. 

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A 2-53 is going to run nice and quiet with a Nelson muffler. They are a fantastic little power plant.

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On a boiler deal A?? You ah..you know boilers do ya? Lol seriously i may need some boiler school/help/advise when we rebuild.😁

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7 hours ago, AKwelder said:

 

 

the main drawback would be it is no where as automated or convenient.  

Adding automation should not be very difficult for someone with your skill set. Get an automatic transfer switch. That’s what gives the run and stop signals. On old school engines auto-start is easy to add. There’s a multitude of aftermarket controllers available. The component most use for speed sensing is a mag pickup. You drill and tap a hole in the bell housing perpendicular to the flywheel right over the teeth. The rest is pretty simple wiring. I would be happy to help if you have any questions. Also there are a few other guys on this forum that have extensive knowledge on this subject.

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VT if thats at me...he said he was offered it on a boiler trade dealy. Just trying to network.

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