Jump to content

Speaking of Skid Steers


hobbyfarm
 Share

Recommended Posts

Didn't want to derail  dirt floor pool's thread.

Random Ramblings:

1.  My wife likes to send me pics of things sitting along the road that she thinks I would be interested in.  She sent me this yesterday when she went for blood work. 1900 hours and asking for $19,995 for a 90s New Holland.  I kept the picture with the phone number and price out.  Insanity in my opinion. 

2.  Anyone have thoughts on Wacker Neuson skid steers?  They seem to be gaining in popularity.   Fence guy has 2 new I believe.  Says warranty is really good.  

3.  Jcb  just don't seem as popular.  Maybe a bad rap from their earlier years and backhoes?  @EquipmentJunkie any insight?   Assume your dealer is Hoober.  My old neighbor  but a new jcb 525-80?  Telehandler 3 or 4 years ago.  Seems happy with it.

 

IMG_20220701_210941.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m pretty sure our John Deere dealer who does not have the John Deere Skidsteer franchise stopped selling mustang and started selling wacker Skidsteers.  The one I looked at had a Kohler Diesel engine in it.  Looked pretty rugged.  That new Holland seems expensive considering it 25 plus years old.  To each his own.   If someone think that is the machine for them more power to them.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bought a JCB 260 ten years ago, not because i liked it but due to side access for my handicapped son. After owning it 10 years this spring i sold my NH cause it only got used once or twice a year. Will never buy another front enter skid steer. We do have good service for JCB close to us, but it has given me minimum trouble. Love everything about it, cab, visibility, AC, size, & side entry. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear the same thing against jcb skid steers, "I just don't know how that single arm boom is going to hold up without twisting".  If its abused, it will most likely twist. I've seen a few new Holland booms that were twisted.

The few guys I know that do have jcb skid steers love them however. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t think you would find much wrong with a whacker if you got one right. Personally, based on my limited experience if i were looking at a SS it would be CAT or Kubota. Locally we have great Kubota support, and CAT, well.. need i say more? Seems like the SS market is so flooded with options, if someone is unloading one cheap, probably a good reason. And parts availability is a really good reason to unload one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my neighbor bought an 07 new holland tracked machine in the past 6 mos, hes been dumping $$ into it like a bottomless well cant fault the machine since it has 4K hours on it and it actually doesnt look that bad cosmetically but boy it has a lot of issues everything from wiring, hydraulic, track system, AC, its been a lota of trouble and now they are wrestling with the aux valves/safety shutting off machine and stopping flow they already had to replace the entire valve block/body to the tune of over 800 for it, it was seized up. 

i love my volvo machine, its a scat trak ( omni quip corp ) who makes sky trak units from up in wisconsin - has a perkins in it same motor that is in cats - volvo had not modified them outside of paint until they went to the B model units 

i havent heard any horrible things regarding teh kohler diesels yet in the wacker units but dealer support is going to be tough if you need it not a lot around, gehl and manitou are buddies in the track loaders now they all used to be in bed with takeuchi and mustang i believe at one point 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

I don’t think you would find much wrong with a whacker if you got one right. Personally, based on my limited experience if i were looking at a SS it would be CAT or Kubota. Locally we have great Kubota support, and CAT, well.. need i say more? Seems like the SS market is so flooded with options, if someone is unloading one cheap, probably a good reason. And parts availability is a really good reason to unload one. 

i would agree the kubota/cat/deere/bobcat around here have the best support - depends on what you are doing with the machine regarding application which way I would go

i think the case and new holland are playing catchup adn case had a few bad yrs during the transition and machine taht well - werent up to part with the reliability of teh old 1845 units. I believe the 60 70 80  XT series units were pretty good from most Ive heard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, hobbyfarm said:

Didn't want to derail  dirt floor pool's thread.

Random Ramblings:

1.  My wife likes to send me pics of things sitting along the road that she thinks I would be interested in.  She sent me this yesterday when she went for blood work. 1900 hours and asking for $19,995 for a 90s New Holland.  I kept the picture with the phone number and price out.  Insanity in my opinion. 

2.  Anyone have thoughts on Wacker Neuson skid steers?  They seem to be gaining in popularity.   Fence guy has 2 new I believe.  Says warranty is really good.  

3.  Jcb  just don't seem as popular.  Maybe a bad rap from their earlier years and backhoes?  @EquipmentJunkie any insight?   Assume your dealer is Hoober.  My old neighbor  but a new jcb 525-80?  Telehandler 3 or 4 years ago.  Seems happy with it.

 

IMG_20220701_210941.jpg

That’s probably more than it was new . We had a early 90s 1845 case think it was 14000 new .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ky966boy said:

That’s probably more than it was new . We had a early 90s 1845 case think it was 14000 new .

Then again with today's economy most anything is selling for more than it did new.  My understanding of most any tracked ss the running gear is good for about 3-4000 hrs, then most of them will need rebuilding. Warranties are golden as long as you want to keep rotating through newer machines. I have a bobcat from the 80s, minor repairs ever. Brother in law has a new one, constantly hauling in for "warranty" work. At what point is your time worth more than free repairs. Good luck on your purchases 

Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will hold my tongue until I experience their SSL first hand, but the bit of first hand knowledge I have of Wacker Neuson compact loaders doesn't make me very confident. Think... Fischer Price.

$20k for that New Holland would be about right in the market around here. It's low houred and pre-emissions. A worn out 8000hr Bobcat will fetch $10k+.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m to a point I wouldn’t even consider one of these newer skid steers.  Can’t see a thing out of them compared to my old Cases.  If I need a smaller loader but significantly bigger than the 35hp Cases I have now,  I will look at compact wheel loaders.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be right around what that machine would be worth around here. Everything has gone up significantly. I know my 2011 mustang is worth more now with 3000 more hours than what I paid for it 8 years ago. 

I've never actually seen a Wacker in person but have looked them over pretty good online. For the price they are advertising at I've been tossing around trying one. One main thing stopping me is the biggest ctl they offer doesn't spec out big enough for me, unless they've added one recently. I asked a rental place a couple years ago about Wacker skid steers, as he runs any brand and handles some smaller Wacker equipment. All he said was they are cheap for a reason, and left it at that. I do see some used ones for sale and it looks like the resale price on them is not very high compared to other brands

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, td9inidaho said:

My understanding of most any tracked ss the running gear is good for about 3-4000 hrs, then most of them will need rebuilding.

I’d say that is pretty optimistic. I’ve had tracks that didn’t last 2,000 hours and we only run on dirt. Roller failures started on ours at just over 2,000 hours. The drive sprockets on ours were very worn at 2,500. From zero to 2,500 hours on ours it had over 5,000 in parts (no labor since we put them on) on the undercarriage and more were going to be needed pretty soon if it hadn’t have burned. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Maybe @Cattech would have better information, but I have heard some contractors say that their 953’s have less undercarriage cost per hour than a large CTL. It cost more up front, but lasts much, much longer. 

I was just debating whether I should chime in on CTL U/C life & costs again.

Long story short, there is no way to truly predict the life expectancy of the components. Sure some brands might have design or engineering shortfalls that make them less reliable, but operating conditions are usually the deciding factor. I have a few customers who burn a set of tracks off in less than 1000 hrs, and I have seen a few machines get 4000 hrs on a set.

As Dirt-poor mentioned above, I often tell the story... 20 yrs ago we had a customer who was particularly hard on their CTLs, we figured the per operating hour U/C cost at $17.... that customer re-educated their operators and long since dropped the cost down to the normal $2-4hr.

I recently had a machine come through with another type of issue. A lower hr'd CTL that spent most of its life in silage piles & feedlots. The tracks, sprockets, idlers, bogie looked great, but the bearings were all shot and the final drives were leaking. The corrosive environment deteriorated all the seals. Oil got out, corrosive moisture got in, hired hand operators kept on running it. A municipality that loaded salt spreaders with one had a similar problem.

My opinion on CTLs... when you need one, a wheeled SSL just can't hold a candle to a track machine and they are invaluable. A CTL will do the work of 3 wheeled machines. But a person should think long & hard about whether they really have the need, unless their pockets are deep enough to not care about the extra operating costs. If you only need tracks once in a while, you'll probably be money ahead to buy a wheeled machine and rent/hire those few jobs requiring tracks.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Cattech said:

I was just debating whether I should chime in on CTL U/C life & costs again.

Long story short, there is no way to truly predict the life expectancy of the components. Sure some brands might have design or engineering shortfalls that make them less reliable, but operating conditions are usually the deciding factor. I have a few customers who burn a set of tracks off in less than 1000 hrs, and I have seen a few machines get 4000 hrs on a set.

As Dirt-poor mentioned above, I often tell the story... 20 yrs ago we had a customer who was particularly hard on their CTLs, we figured the per operating hour U/C cost at $17.... that customer re-educated their operators and long since dropped the cost down to the normal $2-4hr.

I recently had a machine come through with another type of issue. A lower hr'd CTL that spent most of its life in silage piles & feedlots. The tracks, sprockets, idlers, bogie looked great, but the bearings were all shot and the final drives were leaking. The corrosive environment deteriorated all the seals. Oil got out, corrosive moisture got in, hired hand operators kept on running it. A municipality that loaded salt spreaders with one had a similar problem.

My opinion on CTLs... when you need one, a wheeled SSL just can't hold a candle to a track machine and they are invaluable. A CTL will do the work of 3 wheeled machines. But a person should think long & hard about whether they really have the need, unless their pockets are deep enough to not care about the extra operating costs. If you only need tracks once in a while, you'll probably be money ahead to buy a wheeled machine and rent/hire those few jobs requiring tracks.

 

I guess we did about as good as you can with undercarriage maintenance costs then. How do the figures you used for a CTL compare to something like a 953 that does mostly new housing construction?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Gearclash said:

I’m to a point I wouldn’t even consider one of these newer skid steers.  Can’t see a thing out of them compared to my old Cases.  If I need a smaller loader but significantly bigger than the 35hp Cases I have now,  I will look at compact wheel loaders.

I have ZERO desire for a newer skid loader than has emissions. Only want 3.9 Cummins powered  Case machines 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I guess we did about as good as you can with undercarriage maintenance costs then. How do the figures you used for a CTL compare to something like a 953 that does mostly new housing construction?

I would have to have a sample machine and do the math. At the time on above example, the $17 an hr was more than that customer's D7R.

It's the same equations and same math for bigger equipment. Steel U/C also completely depends on useage for life expectancy. A while back, during a particularly bad winter we rented a lot of dozers out to push back snowdrifts. Snow is extremely hard on U/C. We had a dozen D6's that needed rails and sprockets with less than 2000 hrs. A long time ago now, I did a full power train rebuild on a D10N that worked in coke material, it had 24,000 hrs on the mostly original U/C.

Just like a combine. You harvest flax or corn, very little wear, but the same machine in rice will be shot in a fraction of the hrs.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, yellowrosefarm said:

Anybody know of any salvage yards with older Bobcat stuff? I think I'm going to need a drive motor for my 873

Why not rebuild what you have?

Figure out the original manufacturer of the motor, source the parts needed from them. I just rebuilt a motor for a guy "on the side", it wasn't a Cat. I think he had about $350 into it... I charged him $300 labor. 

And not to put the cart in front of the horse... why are you thinking you need a drive motor? Have you checked charge pressure? Drive pressure? Cut the filter open and inspected for debris? Done an oil sample?

Sooooooo many people make assumptions on what is wrong with their machinery and buy random unnecessary parts trying to save a buck or two.

A used drive motor is still a couple thousand dollars. If the motor shed a bunch of material in its failure, your hyd system is F'd. Unless you can figure this out, you're going to get screwed. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Cattech said:

Why not rebuild what you have?

Figure out the original manufacturer of the motor, source the parts needed from them. I just rebuilt a motor for a guy "on the side", it wasn't a Cat. I think he had about $350 into it... I charged him $300 labor. 

And not to put the cart in front of the horse... why are you thinking you need a drive motor? Have you checked charge pressure? Drive pressure? Cut the filter open and inspected for debris? Done an oil sample?

Sooooooo many people make assumptions on what is wrong with their machinery and buy random unnecessary parts trying to save a buck or two.

A used drive motor is still a couple thousand dollars. If the motor shed a bunch of material in its failure, your hyd system is F'd. Unless you can figure this out, you're going to get screwed. 

I only want to rebuild the hydro pump and both drive motors all at the same time. Usually when one thing starts to fail it contaminated the other two and they won't be far behind 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Cattech said:

Why not rebuild what you have?

Figure out the original manufacturer of the motor, source the parts needed from them. I just rebuilt a motor for a guy "on the side", it wasn't a Cat. I think he had about $350 into it... I charged him $300 labor. 

And not to put the cart in front of the horse... why are you thinking you need a drive motor? Have you checked charge pressure? Drive pressure? Cut the filter open and inspected for debris? Done an oil sample?

Sooooooo many people make assumptions on what is wrong with their machinery and buy random unnecessary parts trying to save a buck or two.

A used drive motor is still a couple thousand dollars. If the motor shed a bunch of material in its failure, your hyd system is F'd. Unless you can figure this out, you're going to get screwed. 

Just trying to "get my ducks in a row" for when I do dig into it.  Left side drive is weak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...