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Farmall 560 hydraulic pressure


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Need a little guidance from some of you guys with knowledge on sixty series hydraulics.  On my 62 560 diesel, the hydraulics are super weak compared to my father's 59 560.  I've replaced the pump with a brand new 17 gpm pump, added the allied precision filter extension kit, and put a single washer behind the relief valve spring and I still don't have jack crap for pressure.  I haven't hooked a gauge to it yet to see exactly how much pressure it's making, that's going to be this week's project. I'm not really sure where else to look but any insight would be appreciated. 

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17 with the extension on the filter is more than they need for normal work. Have you checked the "S" or "D" of the valve positions. There could be leakage. With the washer you made sure not to block the ports in the base? The flow divider block could be worn out or have scoring that by passes. Seem like if I remember there is a O-Ring involved also. Does the pump sound like it is laboring when being used? Gauges. Did you buy both pumps new or just the larger one? 

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13 hours ago, VacDaddyt said:

17 with the extension on the filter is more than they need for normal work. Have you checked the "S" or "D" of the valve positions. There could be leakage. With the washer you made sure not to block the ports in the base? The flow divider block could be worn out or have scoring that by passes. Seem like if I remember there is a O-Ring involved also. Does the pump sound like it is laboring when being used? Gauges. Did you buy both pumps new or just the larger one? 

I'm currently using it to pull a Mac Don R80 14 foot hydro swing discbine swather soo it needs all the hydraulics it can get.  The valve positions are set correctly, it works both ways, just very weak.  The ports in the base are still open. Where exactly is the flow divider? The pump doesn't whine or act like it's being worked really hard, soo I'm assuming it's bypassing somewhere.  I only replaced the main hydraulics pump, not the small powersteering pump.

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There is no flow divider. As you pointed out it has a separate power steering pump. Only chances for internal leaks are pump mounting oring, pump itself or in the valve stack. Regulator block has pressure relief and unloading valve. 17 gpm leakage should be easy to see. That would be a fair amount of damage. Unloading valve problems would have to involve ball not seating. Seat backed out ball damaged, spring broke or foreign material in seat.

Before tearing into it. Put a gauge in remote. Check pressure at just above idle speed. If pressure increases only slightly as speed is increased. It is relief valve setting. If pressure rises significantly with rpm. Then you're chasing a leak or a bad pump.

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I agree with snoshoe.. Meant the block you are working in/on. I have a original book on repairs somewhere. The basis is that the pump does not go onto pressure until a pilot passageway in the valve tells it to. Gauges is best to know where it is at.

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I'll try to get a gauge in it today and see where it's at.  Pressure does seem to increase with rpm and the hotter the hydraulic fluid gets the worse the the Pressure gets.  By what you guys described, it sounds like a definite leak to me. I appreciate the help.

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Makes almost zero pressure at idle.  At 1800 rpm it makes about 500 psi and at 2400 rpm it will spike 12 to 1400 psi and kind of fluctuate up and down and then settle to around 500 psi again.  Pump never really does sound like it's working. 

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Not the result I was hoping for. Either bad pump or serious internal leak. I think I see teledepth fast hitch. Does it still work? Any creative plumbing on this thing?

I guess if you're sure new pump never made any difference even for a short time. Dig into regulator as mentioned before.

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1 hour ago, snoshoe said:

Not the result I was hoping for. Either bad pump or serious internal leak. I think I see teledepth fast hitch. Does it still work? Any creative plumbing on this thing?

I guess if you're sure new pump never made any difference even for a short time. Dig into regulator as mentioned

Pulled the pump and checked O-rings on the mounting plate and they are good.  It does have a fast hitch but even it is hesitant to work with such low pressure. But yes it does function with the rpm bumped up.  I removed all of the remotes and the regulator, don't really see anything blatantly obvious wrong. No torn o-rings or anything scored. I'm at a loss right now.

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26 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Pull pump apart. Show us the insides.

I'm going to hold off on tearing apart the pump until I'm sure the issue isn't in this valve block area somewhere.  Just bought it a month ago from Abilene Machine and it has all the paint marks on it yet, I'd hate to void the warranty just in case.  I think I'm going to install a different regulator block just in case there's something I'm missing.  If that doesn't help, I'll tear into the pump.

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8 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Just checking. You had unloading valve piston out and ball was firmly seated?

Unloading valve is directly under the relief spring correct? If soo, yes pulled it out and the ball in the end seems seated firm. Can barely push it in with my finger.  There has to be something very obvious here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it.  Can the regulator block be worn internally by chance ?  What I find strange is how the pressure was basically surging up and down before it finally settled back to 500. 

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2 minutes ago, Petro said:

Unloading valve is directly under the relief spring correct? If soo, yes pulled it out and the ball in the end seems seated firm. Can barely push it in with my finger.  There has to be something very obvious here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it.  Can the regulator block be worn internally by chance ?  What I find strange is how the pressure was basically surging up and down before it finally settled back to 500. 

Any wear to cause this would have to be in relief valve.  Letting oil past piston. Or the unloading valve ball not seating.

 

6 minutes ago, Petro said:

Office plug is in it, tried to remove it before to check it but it was too tight for my flathead screw driver and I gave up. 

If that gets plugged. System will be on constant high pressure. That would burnout a new pump in short order. Would think you would have noticed that. Especially with the 17 gallon pump. Not sure what would happen if orifice was missing. Likely wouldn't work at all.

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15 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Any wear to cause this would have to be in relief valve.  Letting oil past piston. Or the unloading valve ball not seating.

 

If that gets plugged. System will be on constant high pressure. That would burnout a new pump in short order. Would think you would have noticed that. Especially with the 17 gallon pump. Not sure what would happen if orifice was missing. Likely wouldn't work at all.

Yeah definitely would have noticed it on high pressure. Realistically this is the third pump in this tractor since I've owned it.  I bought it probably 4 years ago, hydraulics were weak soo I threw another used pump at it.  The used pump never really made a difference, I figured the used pump was probably just tired also. Soo this year we bought this MacDon swather and I figured I'd just upgrade to a brand new pump just to eliminate the possibility of a bad used pump.  New pump also never really made a difference, soo I figured the relief spring was weak.  Threw a washer behind it last week, seemed to work alright for 20 acres of cutting but it was cool outside and they were long rows soo I wasn't using the hydraulics much soo I'm assuming the fluid never got real warm.  Went to cut a few acres this week, short feild soo I was constantly swinging it and picking it up and it was 95 degrees outside soo I'm sure the fluid was plenty warm. Towards the end I couldn't pick it up anymore and now even after it cooled down it won't pick it up.  Soo it has gotten progressively worse this week but there were issues prior soo I'm assuming it's related unless this new pump took a crap on me.

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20 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Do you have one of the old pumps?

Yes I do.  I'll try one tomorrow or Friday just to eliminate the possibility of this new pump being bad.

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On 6/20/2022 at 10:34 PM, snoshoe said:

A 5/8 lockwasher under the spring was quite often needed to raise a 234 picker with rockshaft lift. That would raise pressure back to rated 1200 psi. This was the late 60's.

When we went from a 2M-H to a 234 picker on a 560 we quit disking the endrows, the bouncing helped it pick up the 234.

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1 hour ago, Petro said:

Yes I do.  I'll try one tomorrow or Friday just to eliminate the possibility of this new pump being bad.

Reason I asked was to open it and see if it was bad. Correct would be a flow rater between pump and valves. If you noticed no difference in pumps I have to assume it is not pump.

One more question on regulator. Does unloader piston fit in bore past flush without touching ball? Reason I ask is seat can back out and piston can not backup far enough to let ball seat.

Recently finished a thread where a piece of casting was missing from valve body. Op couldn't see problem. Neither could I from here. Symptoms were different but we could be working with something similar here. These are closed center valves. When the unloader closes. pressure is applied to all three valves. If one leaks to return. Pressure is lost to all. What I would have you do is remove one valve at a time. Use pipe spacers to put end cap on. If you get down to the hitch valve. Unhooking followup linkage will allow you to pressurize. If you still don't get your pressure back. It just leaves the housing valves are bolted to. 

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