Petro Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Need a little guidance from some of you guys with knowledge on sixty series hydraulics. On my 62 560 diesel, the hydraulics are super weak compared to my father's 59 560. I've replaced the pump with a brand new 17 gpm pump, added the allied precision filter extension kit, and put a single washer behind the relief valve spring and I still don't have jack crap for pressure. I haven't hooked a gauge to it yet to see exactly how much pressure it's making, that's going to be this week's project. I'm not really sure where else to look but any insight would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 A quick pic for attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 A 5/8 lockwasher under the spring was quite often needed to raise a 234 picker with rockshaft lift. That would raise pressure back to rated 1200 psi. This was the late 60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacDaddyt Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 17 with the extension on the filter is more than they need for normal work. Have you checked the "S" or "D" of the valve positions. There could be leakage. With the washer you made sure not to block the ports in the base? The flow divider block could be worn out or have scoring that by passes. Seem like if I remember there is a O-Ring involved also. Does the pump sound like it is laboring when being used? Gauges. Did you buy both pumps new or just the larger one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 13 hours ago, VacDaddyt said: 17 with the extension on the filter is more than they need for normal work. Have you checked the "S" or "D" of the valve positions. There could be leakage. With the washer you made sure not to block the ports in the base? The flow divider block could be worn out or have scoring that by passes. Seem like if I remember there is a O-Ring involved also. Does the pump sound like it is laboring when being used? Gauges. Did you buy both pumps new or just the larger one? I'm currently using it to pull a Mac Don R80 14 foot hydro swing discbine swather soo it needs all the hydraulics it can get. The valve positions are set correctly, it works both ways, just very weak. The ports in the base are still open. Where exactly is the flow divider? The pump doesn't whine or act like it's being worked really hard, soo I'm assuming it's bypassing somewhere. I only replaced the main hydraulics pump, not the small powersteering pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 There is no flow divider. As you pointed out it has a separate power steering pump. Only chances for internal leaks are pump mounting oring, pump itself or in the valve stack. Regulator block has pressure relief and unloading valve. 17 gpm leakage should be easy to see. That would be a fair amount of damage. Unloading valve problems would have to involve ball not seating. Seat backed out ball damaged, spring broke or foreign material in seat. Before tearing into it. Put a gauge in remote. Check pressure at just above idle speed. If pressure increases only slightly as speed is increased. It is relief valve setting. If pressure rises significantly with rpm. Then you're chasing a leak or a bad pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacDaddyt Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 I agree with snoshoe.. Meant the block you are working in/on. I have a original book on repairs somewhere. The basis is that the pump does not go onto pressure until a pilot passageway in the valve tells it to. Gauges is best to know where it is at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 I'll try to get a gauge in it today and see where it's at. Pressure does seem to increase with rpm and the hotter the hydraulic fluid gets the worse the the Pressure gets. By what you guys described, it sounds like a definite leak to me. I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 Makes almost zero pressure at idle. At 1800 rpm it makes about 500 psi and at 2400 rpm it will spike 12 to 1400 psi and kind of fluctuate up and down and then settle to around 500 psi again. Pump never really does sound like it's working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Not the result I was hoping for. Either bad pump or serious internal leak. I think I see teledepth fast hitch. Does it still work? Any creative plumbing on this thing? I guess if you're sure new pump never made any difference even for a short time. Dig into regulator as mentioned before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, snoshoe said: Not the result I was hoping for. Either bad pump or serious internal leak. I think I see teledepth fast hitch. Does it still work? Any creative plumbing on this thing? I guess if you're sure new pump never made any difference even for a short time. Dig into regulator as mentioned Pulled the pump and checked O-rings on the mounting plate and they are good. It does have a fast hitch but even it is hesitant to work with such low pressure. But yes it does function with the rpm bumped up. I removed all of the remotes and the regulator, don't really see anything blatantly obvious wrong. No torn o-rings or anything scored. I'm at a loss right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 Oh and plumbing is all factory. Nothing out of the ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Pull pump apart. Show us the insides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 I suppose it is possible that the housing the valve stack bolts to. Has hole in it somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, snoshoe said: Pull pump apart. Show us the insides. I'm going to hold off on tearing apart the pump until I'm sure the issue isn't in this valve block area somewhere. Just bought it a month ago from Abilene Machine and it has all the paint marks on it yet, I'd hate to void the warranty just in case. I think I'm going to install a different regulator block just in case there's something I'm missing. If that doesn't help, I'll tear into the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just checking. You had unloading valve piston out and ball was firmly seated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Still thinking. Orifice plug is in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, snoshoe said: Just checking. You had unloading valve piston out and ball was firmly seated? Unloading valve is directly under the relief spring correct? If soo, yes pulled it out and the ball in the end seems seated firm. Can barely push it in with my finger. There has to be something very obvious here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. Can the regulator block be worn internally by chance ? What I find strange is how the pressure was basically surging up and down before it finally settled back to 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 Office plug is in it, tried to remove it before to check it but it was too tight for my flathead screw driver and I gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Petro said: Unloading valve is directly under the relief spring correct? If soo, yes pulled it out and the ball in the end seems seated firm. Can barely push it in with my finger. There has to be something very obvious here somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. Can the regulator block be worn internally by chance ? What I find strange is how the pressure was basically surging up and down before it finally settled back to 500. Any wear to cause this would have to be in relief valve. Letting oil past piston. Or the unloading valve ball not seating. 6 minutes ago, Petro said: Office plug is in it, tried to remove it before to check it but it was too tight for my flathead screw driver and I gave up. If that gets plugged. System will be on constant high pressure. That would burnout a new pump in short order. Would think you would have noticed that. Especially with the 17 gallon pump. Not sure what would happen if orifice was missing. Likely wouldn't work at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, snoshoe said: Any wear to cause this would have to be in relief valve. Letting oil past piston. Or the unloading valve ball not seating. If that gets plugged. System will be on constant high pressure. That would burnout a new pump in short order. Would think you would have noticed that. Especially with the 17 gallon pump. Not sure what would happen if orifice was missing. Likely wouldn't work at all. Yeah definitely would have noticed it on high pressure. Realistically this is the third pump in this tractor since I've owned it. I bought it probably 4 years ago, hydraulics were weak soo I threw another used pump at it. The used pump never really made a difference, I figured the used pump was probably just tired also. Soo this year we bought this MacDon swather and I figured I'd just upgrade to a brand new pump just to eliminate the possibility of a bad used pump. New pump also never really made a difference, soo I figured the relief spring was weak. Threw a washer behind it last week, seemed to work alright for 20 acres of cutting but it was cool outside and they were long rows soo I wasn't using the hydraulics much soo I'm assuming the fluid never got real warm. Went to cut a few acres this week, short feild soo I was constantly swinging it and picking it up and it was 95 degrees outside soo I'm sure the fluid was plenty warm. Towards the end I couldn't pick it up anymore and now even after it cooled down it won't pick it up. Soo it has gotten progressively worse this week but there were issues prior soo I'm assuming it's related unless this new pump took a crap on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Do you have one of the old pumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petro Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, snoshoe said: Do you have one of the old pumps? Yes I do. I'll try one tomorrow or Friday just to eliminate the possibility of this new pump being bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
801486 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 On 6/20/2022 at 10:34 PM, snoshoe said: A 5/8 lockwasher under the spring was quite often needed to raise a 234 picker with rockshaft lift. That would raise pressure back to rated 1200 psi. This was the late 60's. When we went from a 2M-H to a 234 picker on a 560 we quit disking the endrows, the bouncing helped it pick up the 234. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Petro said: Yes I do. I'll try one tomorrow or Friday just to eliminate the possibility of this new pump being bad. Reason I asked was to open it and see if it was bad. Correct would be a flow rater between pump and valves. If you noticed no difference in pumps I have to assume it is not pump. One more question on regulator. Does unloader piston fit in bore past flush without touching ball? Reason I ask is seat can back out and piston can not backup far enough to let ball seat. Recently finished a thread where a piece of casting was missing from valve body. Op couldn't see problem. Neither could I from here. Symptoms were different but we could be working with something similar here. These are closed center valves. When the unloader closes. pressure is applied to all three valves. If one leaks to return. Pressure is lost to all. What I would have you do is remove one valve at a time. Use pipe spacers to put end cap on. If you get down to the hitch valve. Unhooking followup linkage will allow you to pressurize. If you still don't get your pressure back. It just leaves the housing valves are bolted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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