756puller Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Went out to adjust the clutch on a former coworkers tractor. It's an 856 and it doesn't have a dumpvalve on it. It's got an allied presicion electric dumpvalve on it. How do those work? The oil pressure light stays on all.the time. The ta steering and brakes are all strong. I'm not sure what to think of everything every tractor I usually work on has a dump alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
560DT Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 i believe what your dealing with is a spragless unit made by allied the electric indicator is for low pressure to light your warning light i believe have this same set up on my 1206 but i havent had problem with mine yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 So I'll have to see what the lube pressure is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDman Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Here's some info I gleaned from one of the IH Facebook groups on this. I assume this is the same setup you are deLing with? Looks like the pressure switch is supposed to turn on/off at 250 psi. Never been around one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 Yes that's exactly what I'm dealing with, it's got a power wire that goes to the lube pressure switch. My question is how does it dump ta pressure so you can shift it without a dump valve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kirsch Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, 756puller said: Yes that's exactly what I'm dealing with, it's got a power wire that goes to the lube pressure switch. My question is how does it dump ta pressure so you can shift it without a dump valve? The sprag is the reason why you need to dump TA pressure. If it's "spragless" my guess is you don't need to dump the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 Makes sense I'll pressure test drive and lube pressure to see what's going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kirsch Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, 756puller said: Makes sense I'll pressure test drive and lube pressure to see what's going on At this point my guess would be the switch is stuck on. Especially if the pressures check out okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepoweshiekfarmalls Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Dad had a Hy Capacity spragless TA in his 856 Custom. Dad's brother was an IH mechanic at Custer Implement in Tama. First one installed in our area. Reps came out periodically to check on the performance of the unit. We sold the custom with 12,000 hours on it. The spragless unit was still pulling strong! I purchased my 856 with an M&W tenderfoot on it. Tractor acted like TA was going out. Replaced it with a normal MCV valve and proper adjustments. Still working fine 5,000 hours later on the original TA. So, I have had luck with both stock and aftermarket TA designs. Just not the tenderfoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kirsch Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 So why didn't the spragless design take over? Cost? I asked about these a few years back and as I recall, I was told they were junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepoweshiekfarmalls Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said: So why didn't the spragless design take over? Cost? I asked about these a few years back and as I recall, I was told they were junk. Maybe the majority of the IH dealers talked them down to customers? I am not sure about the cost, too young to know what Dad paid for it. What I do know is that little 856 was a PULLING son of a GUN! We pulled equipment that tractor had no business hooking up to. Dad still remarks about it today. Sure miss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kirsch Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 52 minutes ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said: Maybe the majority of the IH dealers talked them down to customers? I am not sure about the cost, too young to know what Dad paid for it. What I do know is that little 856 was a PULLING son of a GUN! We pulled equipment that tractor had no business hooking up to. Dad still remarks about it today. Sure miss it. Not surprised that tractor could get down and pull with those short little legs on 'er. Just like an NFL fullback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepoweshiekfarmalls Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said: Not surprised that tractor could get down and pull with those short little legs on 'er. Just like an NFL fullback. 18.4-34 rears and 9.5L-15 fronts. Had hub mounted duals too. This photo was taken the morning of our farm sale. So, all the accessories had been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker782 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 21 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said: So why didn't the spragless design take over? Cost? I asked about these a few years back and as I recall, I was told they were junk. We sold and installed 3 spragless TAs back in the day. The first one worked very well. Unfortunately the other two didn’t. The problem with them was when shifting the TA under load, the tractor would almost come to a stop before it would abruptly engage. HyCap tried machining a bevel onto the TA spool in the MCV. That did improve shifting on one tractor but not the other. We didn’t sell anymore after that. Had customers ask about them from time to time but had to inform them about our experiences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepoweshiekfarmalls Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 I was always told to make swift, deliberate shifts with the TA lever on that 856. Never had an issue. I started doing fieldwork with it when I was 13. Drove it as much as Dad did until our sale in March of 1996. That 856 spent hours on the PTO batch dryer every fall. We dried 250 acres of corn every fall, 500 bushels at a time. We actually wore the PTO gear out on that 856! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 There's a million theories about how to shift them, they are there to use. No different than everyone I've put a new clutch it the customer comes to pick it up and they drop it into high forth and take off. Dont even make an attempt to start out in first or second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kirsch Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 13 hours ago, 756puller said: Dont even make an attempt to start out in first or second. Been driving them for 45 years myself and never had much luck shifting on the fly. They really don't have much trouble starting themselves out from a full stop in 4th anyway... Unless you're just trying to drum up more business from them shelling out their 4th gears... Clutch is new, it can take it, LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepoweshiekfarmalls Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 We always start off from a stop in every gear, including 4th. No issues. With a heavy load, I may pull the TA back first. With little or no load behind me, I may slide from third into fourth on the fly. You can tell when to release the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 My brother has learned to shift the 708 806 and 756's with out the clutch once he gets moving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
801486 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 The allied precision MCV was developed to combat the time lag in the shift of the spragless TAs. They reworked it so one clutch pack didn't completely lose pressure before the other one was pressurized. A friend of mine and two others came up with it and sold the the idea to allied presicision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 So any idea what can go wrong in there causing the warning light to come on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, 756puller said: So any idea what can go wrong in there causing the warning light to come on? What were the results of the pressure tests? Did I miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoshoe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 No experience with system. Picture indicates two sensors in parallel. Either would turn light on. Disconnect one at a time to see which is causing light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
756puller Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 I haven't had time to go check pressures yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky966boy Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 My 786 has same thing didn’t know what it was until now .It just has a plug where dump valve should be.I guessing been in there a long time . The TA works good but sometimes you have to shift ta into low to get it out of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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