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loader on 656


plowboy64

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Have a Farmall 656 gear drive I bought a loader for,

where's the best place to plumb lines? only have one rear remote.

if I hook into the mid couplers by steering would i have to tie remote lever to have to loader and still be able to use rear remote?

only want to use to help pick up bales and save having to use skid steer so much .

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Assuming the loader has its own control valve setup of some sort.

The mid couplers and rear couplers are connected to the one remote valve. If you have the loader connected to the mid couplers, you will not be able to use the rear remote. The loader must be disconnected from the mid couplers before the rear ones will work. Reason being, the oil will take the path of least resistance, which is through the loader valve connected to the mid couplers.

You can't "tee in" somewhere for the same reason. The oil will take the path of least resistance, and nothing will work. In an open center hydraulic system there must only be one main loop for the oil to flow when no functions are being used.

I believe there is a way to add "power beyond" to a 656. Not sure if it's a special plate for the end of the valve stack like on the larger 56 series, or another way, but someone else here surely knows.

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You never mentioned the type and brand loader your wanting to put on it or if it has its own spool valve 

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My 656 has both loader functions hooked into the 2 sets of outlets at the base of the dash.  Use the 2 hydraulic levers next to the seat to operate them.  Dumped a hoist wagon with it last fall during harvest.  Hooked into the rear outlet that shares the lines with the tilt.  The bucket moved first until the ram reached the end of travel,  then the wagon lifted.  Could have unhooked the loader tilt,  but did not bother.

20211015_180837.jpg

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not sure what brand of loader it is has its own spool valve will know more after i pick it up this weekend. supposed to have been on a 656 bought it in between monsoon rains on Monday eve owner couldn't remember how he had it plumbed except not into the remotes

If anyone has pictures of their set up that would be great.

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  • 1 year later...

I just bought a 656 w/loader the joystick is plumbed in to the bottom of the outside valve the handle is pulled forward with a bunge strap, seems strange but seems to work I would really like to hook it up on couplers underneath fuel tan but from what I am reading here that would not work?

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25 minutes ago, Youngch72 said:

I just bought a 656 w/loader the joystick is plumbed in to the bottom of the outside valve the handle is pulled forward with a bunge strap, seems strange but seems to work I would really like to hook it up on couplers underneath fuel tan but from what I am reading here that would not work?

From what you say it would work the same as it does now. Whether you tie lever forward or back is set by swapping the hoses in the couplers.

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2 hours ago, Youngch72 said:

I just bought a 656 w/loader the joystick is plumbed in to the bottom of the outside valve the handle is pulled forward with a bunge strap, seems strange but seems to work I would really like to hook it up on couplers underneath fuel tan but from what I am reading here that would not work?

Those couplers under the tank and the couplers on the rear are connected together -- so no difference in action

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9 hours ago, Youngch72 said:

I just bought a 656 w/loader the joystick is plumbed in to the bottom of the outside valve the handle is pulled forward with a bunge strap, seems strange but seems to work I would really like to hook it up on couplers underneath fuel tan but from what I am reading here that would not work?

Not strange. Actually quite common. These tractors were not designed for easy "power beyond" hydraulics to hook up a loader valve without using a remote. Plus in the days before internet the information to do power beyond was not easily accessible. So many farmers set it up exactly the way yours is.

Why would you want to move this to the ports under the gas tank? It really doesn't gain you anything, and might be slightly faster connected directly to the valve body.

Could you post a picture of what you describe?

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5 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Does the loader valve have a built in pressure relief?

Most do, yes

the question that needs asked is -- Does the loader valve provide for power beyond ?

That will determine how easy it will be to connect to the tractor

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On 7/20/2023 at 7:53 PM, Youngch72 said:

I just bought a 656 w/loader the joystick is plumbed in to the bottom of the outside valve the handle is pulled forward with a bunge strap, seems strange but seems to work I would really like to hook it up on couplers underneath fuel tan but from what I am reading here that would not work?

 

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It appears that it would the same as it does now except it would be the other lever. It also appears you have no rear couplers. Is that what this is about?

Plumbing loader valve in series reduces speed as you lose hitch pump output. Plumbing as power beyond is also important as relief valve pressures can stack. Replacing out side valve with two sided one and adding power beyond plate is best solution in my opinion. It gives you flow of both pumps and single relief handles it all. Personally I would dump the joystick and just use the tractor valves. Showing my age I guess.

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Hitch pump is a separate element to the auxiliary/steering pump. They are bolted together and share a common intake circuit, but that's it. 

Relief valves don't "stack" . You could have ten 2000 psi relief valves in series, and the feed going to the circuit would still only equal 2000 psi. Mathematically. Flow restriction is a consideration in the equation, but is a moot point when there are only two reliefs in a circuit where it would be a very rare occasion for both a loader and an auxiliary circuit to be at max pressure at the same time. 

Yes, a power beyond plate is the cleanest and best way to do it, but can be the most costly when it comes to sourcing and installing the required components. 

Plumbing in series with the auxiliary pump output is acceptable, but ONLY if all loader functions are using double acting cylinders. That way the same amount of oil to feed a function is also returning to keep the steering circuit supplied. 

Respectfully, FD. 

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8 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Hitch pump is a separate element to the auxiliary/steering pump. They are bolted together and share a common intake circuit, but that's it. 

Relief valves don't "stack" . You could have ten 2000 psi relief valves in series, and the feed going to the circuit would still only equal 2000 psi. Mathematically. Flow restriction is a consideration in the equation, but is a moot point when there are only two reliefs in a circuit where it would be a very rare occasion for both a loader and an auxiliary circuit to be at max pressure at the same time. 

Yes, a power beyond plate is the cleanest and best way to do it, but can be the most costly when it comes to sourcing and installing the required components. 

Plumbing in series with the auxiliary pump output is acceptable, but ONLY if all loader functions are using double acting cylinders. That way the same amount of oil to feed a function is also returning to keep the steering circuit supplied. 

Respectfully, FD. 

Wrong on two counts. Hitch pump flow is added to auxiliaries. Relief valves without a separate return do stack. If you would put a gauge on your 686 at the pump port and deadhead loader and steering at same time you would know this.

I was also wrong when I said one relief. I keep forgetting hitch pump has a separate relief.

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2 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

Wrong on two counts. Hitch pump flow is added to auxiliaries. Relief valves without a separate return do stack. If you would put a gauge on your 686 at the pump port and deadhead loader and steering at same time you would know this.

I was also wrong when I said one relief. I keep forgetting hitch pump has a separate relief.

And while you're at it put a gauge in hitch pump port and put an auxiliary on pressure.

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